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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
First of all, I always put a large doll needle into my fly box to tie quick nail knots with. Why a needle? You can use the eye to thread the end of the nail knot across and pull the needle out to thread the tag through. Much easier than threading the tag through the loops. Anyway, in my saltwater box after a fulltime guiding year the needle was rusted up and staining my foam flybox so I tossed it. Wouldn't you know I needed it on my most recent charter!

I started to tie an albright but then realized the end of the flyline doubled over forms a very nice channel, like the gap between two fingers when held together.

After wrapping 6-8 wraps of butt, I simply slid the end of the nail knot through the gap between the two folded halves of the end of the fly line. The nail knot was ready to go, but no need for the double line so I then pulled the loose end out to end up single again through the nail knot ready to be tightened. Pull the fly line closer to the awaiting knot and voila! Pull both ends tight (opposite tightens opposite), trim tags and you're fishing.

It's really very easy to do and I don't even think I'll bother with a needle anymore!

Works for me.

juro
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Good point! I like it, another option for sure.

What I meant in this case was just use the groove in the fly line folded over as a threading slot verses the sideways pull device of the needle or tippet trick.

You know that nail knot tool with it's channel to thread; similarly I used the space between the folded fly line as the channel and then once completed (before tightening) I un-folded the flyline, slid to desired location, then pulled the nail knot tight.
 

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I've had really good luck lately using a Uni knot in place of a nail knot. The Uni-to-Uni is my replacement for a blood knot as it allows materials of widely different diameters to be joined in a very strong knot. It works great joining monofilament or fluorocarbon to gel-spun polyethylene lines. It's also easy to tie without my reading glasses ( a big plus on the water). The only kicker is that it might need to be adjusted a bit to get the tag end to lie parallel to the line/leader instead of jutting off at an angle.

Here's a link to the U2U knot: http://www.berkley-fishing.com/tips/tipdetail.cfm?TipsContentId=5&All='Yes

The company is not a sponsor, but the info is worthwhile.

Keith

The address posts as a hot link, and I'm not sure how to delete that function...
 

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Sorry I'm a little fuzzy. Did an early morning trip down the Canal to see if the chums were in-- the scouts are, but visibility (because of the floods) was about three inches-- that's a weird condition for saltwater.

Anyway-- I use a single uni knot (tied with 30-pound leader material) on the end of the fly line. If I'm after big fish, I tie a small overhand knot in the fly line and hit the joint with CA glue. I haven't had this fail yet, but I suppose at some point it will.

I tried to find you at the end of the show for a catch up, but you weren't in the booth the two times I walked by... I hope you had a good show. I know CND got exposure-- on the shuttle ride to the airport, three people were talking about the rods.

KJ
 

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"but then realized the end of the flyline doubled over forms a very nice channel, like the gap between two fingers when held together."

Yup, I've been doing it that way for quite some time, since I somehow always manage to forget my knot tying tool.
 

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Nail Knot Failures

Juro,
I have had the nail knot fail a couple of times by pulling the coating off the flyline, so I no longer use it. Have you had that experience in saltwater with bigger fish?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Hi Ted -

In SWFF the most common line is the clear or semi-clear intermediate and lines like the Rio, Airflo or Wulff are tough coatings bonded to the core. I've not had any such problems, but I do recall that while winter steelheading with sinktips made from shooting heads I've had the problem once or twice when snagged but never on a fish.

My first choice is a cement splice, which is so streamlined and the same diameter as the line itself. I've found the old nail knot to be a little stronger but neither have given way on a fish for me so far.

Curious, what method do you prefer instead?
 

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Braided Loops

Juro
I have been using braide loops exclusively for steelhead and salmon fishing for a number of years. They have worked well for me. For larger lines, including many of the spey lines, I use the 50# braid for the loops. There is no danger off that failing with spey lines.
 

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Juro,

For sink tips, I tie a nail knot over the doubled tip of the sink tip. Just make sure that the nail knot is very close to the loop before you pull it tight. And by using the loop as its own nail knot tool, it makes for a very fast, strong, efficient knot that will not slip because it will hang up and the small bulb the loop provides. Trey Combs showed this method to me some 11 years ago.
 

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Hey,

To make a nail knot in the field, using a nail or a needle is definetely old-fashioned and difficult!

A much better option is to cut a 2-3cm (about one inch) piece from an Earwig (or cotton buds, whatever you call them), so it forms a small plastic tube.

Then simply tie the nail knot so that the tube is inside the knot, thread in the end of the leader and remove the tube and tighten.

It's very easy to tie this knot even with cold and shaking hands.

I put the plastic tubes in every pocket of my fly vest and wading jacket, so they are always available. So far the nail-knots have not failed once, even when fishing salmon or big pike. The ready-made loops however, have failed twice.

Cheers,
Samuli from Finland
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Samuli -

I don't think you read the post, or understood it in any case. I have used the "tube" method and it is much more difficult than what I am doing.

I am putting the tag end of the line thru the eye of the needle sideways after wrapping the loops, then just pulling the needle out to finish the nail knot.

This is SO much easier than threading the line thru the middle hole in a tube, pushing it all the way through the length of the knot, pulling out the tube, then tightening up the knot.

If you are thinking I am using a needle like the old "nail" method, I can understand why you think it's difficult. But that is not the case at all.

What I am doing is far easier and faster than a q-tip tube. I only need to place the tag into the needle eye, then pull the needle out and it does all the work. It takes about half of the time by the tube method and with much less difficulty.

But thanks for the suggestion just the same. I've tried them both but found the tube method may be much easier than the "old" nail method, but not nearly as easy as the side-eye method I am suggesting.
 

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Juro,

You're right, it seems I misunderstood the way you are using the needle to make the knot. I stand corrected :smile: The problem with needles is that I always seem to lose the one I'm carrying, so having a cheap replacement (tubes) has served me well.

I suppose the next phase is to practice to make the nail knot without any tools, using the doubled flyline.

Thanks for the great tips!
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Thanks for the reply. I use foam flyboxes most of the time (except for the swingleaf wheatleys) and the needles are poked into the foam and always available. I prefer the double-ended (eyes on both ends) because there is no point on them. I tie a loop of 30# backing thru the other eye and it stays on a zinger.

You just gave me a great idea... why not just drill a hole across a small nylon tube fly tube? That way it's cheap, not sharp and pulls the line thru the wraps for you too. A combination of the two ideas.
 

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Great Post

Juro, great idea on the doubled flyline to complete the nail knot.

I'm curious about the uni-knot connection of the butt section to the flyline. I suppose it works the same as the albright or blood knot - wraps digging into the flyline coating.

I have found that the blood knot on Rio clear intermediate lines does not hold. That is, the crimped flyline coating separates from the monofilament core. Thus, I now use an albright on this particular intermediate line with a light coating of Knot Sense to taper and smooth the knot.

As suggested, a blood knot on doubled flyline should conceivable work the same as an albright.

Good thread.

Simms
 

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JimS,

The albright with a uni-knot tied with the tag end of the backing or leader that gets pulled up tight against the doubled fly line loop of the albright makes for an extremely secure connection. It is how I attach the backing to all my fly lines.

Also, a nail knot or uni-knot tied over double fly line end makes for a very secure line-leader connection. Just remember to place 2 turns of the knot under the fly line tag either in the middle of the knot or at the very end near the fly line's loop to make sure it won't slip. This works with any fly line.
 

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Flytyer:

An albright with a lock (3-turn uni-knot) coated with Knot Sense is my standard flyline to butt section connection on my saltwater lines.

Thanks for the info on the blood or uni-knot on the doubled flyline with a two-turn lock on the tag end. Is this a more secure connection than the albright with a lock?

Simms
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I assume you guys are talking nail knot, not blood knot in the above - or are you actually tying a blood knot between flyline and butt?

I've never had to do it for braided core lines of any kind but mono core lines are a different story - I like a doubled nail with the butt passing thru the folded over line best.

My favorite of all is the epoxy splice but it's not something you do in the field.
 
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