shhhhhhh

Please do not ever stop mentioning Deer Creek natives, or any creek natives!

I've prowled in the shadows of cedars on the banks of the Stilliguamish many times and hobbled over the sun-washed moraine stones that the river slices through often during my tenure in the PNW. I can relate to the places and the smells and scenes... but even if I could not, just think about it... in 2001, it is completely and utterly redeeming to hear talk of a population of native summer steelhead that has been wiggling from the gravel of a certain creek for millenia, and still does today.

Along the way from then to now were names like Haig-Brown, Johnson, McLeod, Wahl, Drain, Knudsen, Bradner, Zane Grey, all the way up to our freind Mike Kinney today, who have probably uttered the same words you did...

"shhhhhhhhhhhhh"

I won’t tell a soul. This is not a secret. The Deer Creek steelhead run is one of the most famous in this part of Washington. Funny you say that the river is crowded. I fished a well known run last night and seen one other fisherman early. Then I had this run all to myself for the evening. Well, one eagle was keeping an eye on me. I caught two beautiful Deer Creek natives. I watch as the fish moved into the run. After spotting the first roll I knew it was a matter of time. Five minutes later the first fish hit early in the swing. I landed it and moved up in the run. A few casts later the second fish took. That was it. I fished for another 45 minutes and got nothing. A great evening on a legendary river, fishing for legendary fish. A night I will remember for a long time.

Let the wild ones go…………………………………

Ahhhhh but aren't we forgetting boyz...

That the Deer Creek Run use to be the strongest, what was it 5,000 strong before the devastating mud slide due to careless loggers.

The WDFW claims that counts are at 2,000????

But alas Mike Kinney who lives and breathes the Stilly says it's at 500???

Now who's right?
Are they still endangered and should we be targeting endangered fish?

What if you accidentally killed one?

Wouldn't you feel bad????

Angie (06-27-2001 01:04 p.m.):
Ahhhhh but aren't we forgetting boyz...

That the Deer Creek Run use to be the strongest, what was it 5,000 strong before the devastating mud slide due to careless loggers.

The WDFW claims that counts are at 2,000????

But alas Mike Kinney who lives and breathes the Stilly says it's at 500???

Now who's right?
Are they still endangered and should we be targeting endangered fish?

What if you accidentally killed one?

Wouldn't you feel bad????

Click to expand...

The historical run size of the Deer Creek steelhead is estimated at 2,000 returning adults a summer (DeShazo 74, Kreamer 99). In fact the maximum sustainable harvest for the Deer Creek native summer runs is believed to be at about 910 (Kreamer 99). The MSH was developed by the infamous Bob Gibbons and published with other authors in 1985 in the publication "Methodology for determaining MSH steelhead spawning escapements." In short this means that atleast 910 adults are required to return to sustain the run and every fish over that 910 may be harvested. (I DO NOT AGREE WITH GIBBONS) The current level of the run is estimated between 500-1000 adults although some sampling shows that the population may be in fact higher (Kreamer 99).

I have nothing against Mike Kinney, in fact, I admire his skills and flyfisherman and especially as a tier. BUT, Mike does not fly over Deer Creek in the summer and Mike does not count adults and he also does not have the capabilities to estimate the size of the run as accurate as science can.

So will I be fishing for Deer Creek steelhead?? You betcha!! But I will also fight the fish as fast as I can, never stepping below a #7 and if I believe the water becomes too warm, I start seeing morts, or if the emergency closure is in place this year I will stop fishing the Stilly. (Not because I park myself at Deer Creek but because if fish are dying due to being caught at the mouth of Deer Creek, they may also suffer at the many great holes below.

And I would feel bad if I killed one but wouldnt you feel bad if you found out a Skagit-Sauk native you caught this yeaer could not make it??...especially in a year where the river did not reach its escapement goal!?!!?

DeShazo, J. J. 1974. Deer Creek study. Washington Department of Game. Olympia WA. 25 p.

Gibbons, R. G., P. K. Hahn, and T. H. Johnson. 1985. Methodology for determining MSH
steelhead spawning escapement requirements. Washington Department of Game, Olympia, WA. 39 p.

Kreamer, C. R. Management Brief: 1999 Update of on the Status of the Deer Creek Steelhead. Washington State Department of Fish and Wildlife, Olympia, Wa. pp 1-7

Kerry's Right

As for any scientific studies done on any of our species of salmon and steelhead, I say chuck them out the window.

I listen to the old timers, not only did Mike Kinney talk about the old days and the great numbers, but so did Harry Lemire, Stacey Lemerieux, and the other esteem members of the Skagit Steelhead Club. You know the stretch of river above I-5? Use to be a boulder garden and incrediable fishing... what is it now?

After working in the Environmental Industry for 3 years and working on salmon restoration projects with hydrogeologists, fishery biologists, etc...

I have found that these researchers don't know JACK -HIT about anything.

The only people that really know the rivers are the fishermen that fish their home rivers weekend after weekend and month after month and year after year...

The closing of the Sauk & Skagit this year for C&R season was a joke. If they were to be fair to all the steelhead, what about the early run of monsters that come in an spawn. They don't wait till March & April.

Take all them journals and burn them, because anyone knows that all that research is DOPED up to please the commercials and cover their own asses for their inept management of our river systems.

Any questions?

Isn't it funny to see that some people believe everything they read, I guess with age and experience (experience as in get out their and fish) you can discern what's real and what's not.

Hi Juro and all,

I've been a lurking admirer of this board for almost a year. I never registered because I guess I was unsure of what I could contribute considering that most anglers on this board are more experienced than I am. This board has always been pretty classy and the belligerent ignorance prevalent on most other NW angling boards hasn't shown up here. That streak ended with the above post by Angie.

Regardless of what you think about WDFW management, lumping every field biologist into the "don't know jack ---t" category is silly and not well thought through. Most biologists I know are dedicated and sharp. There is, however, an apparently huge disconnect between the field data and the final product that WDFW churns out. I don't know what filters the data go through before WDFW reaches conclusions. Probably a combination of political pressures and entrenched thinking by upper-level managers bring about some pretty questionable management schemes and, in some cases, data reports.

Whatever. Fishing for ten or thirty hours a week trains a person to be an expert in stream ecology about as well as watching football on weekends and playing in an occasional pick-up game prepares someone to coach the Seahawks.

I am sure that this board will continue to be positive and encouraging despite an occasional bump in the road. Juro is to be commended for fostering this attitude by example.

regards,
Stinkfoot