The swing's the thing! - Page 2 - Fly Fishing Forum
Pacific Northwest Sea Run Forum No such thing as rainbow trout, only landlocked steelhead

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  #16  
Old 01-06-2005, 04:19 PM
peter-s-c peter-s-c is offline
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Interesting, but when I got back into flyfishing seriously, I started off with wets on floating lines and I did OK -- like you I moved away from it. I now do a fair bit of floating line work with wets and streamers -- do OK too.

The big question though, will steelhead move to a shallow running, small wet fly? Will they move in cold water?

Somebody needs to do some serious experimenting -- and Russ, no putting any pink on that fly.
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  #17  
Old 01-06-2005, 04:38 PM
flytyer flytyer is offline
 
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Peter,

WHAT! No using da' pink fly! Now I ask: How can we possibly hook a fish without da' little pink 'un?
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  #18  
Old 01-06-2005, 11:52 PM
Rick J Rick J is offline
 
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Hi OC - Nicely put - one more question for you - I am not sure I understood your comment on skagit method - too effective? - seems it is just swinging a tip - it is just the casting method that varies?

Best regards,
Rick J
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  #19  
Old 01-07-2005, 10:39 AM
OC OC is offline
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I think the Skagit method is more effective than the conventional swing. I'm no expert on it so please correct me if I'm wrong. Though the cast is close to the conventional types of spey casts but it is designed to cast a shorter heavier sink tip and weighted fly from what I have observed. Having used similiar lines and flys 8 or ten years ago with a single hander for a season I know that the fly gets down quickly and stays down in all waters except the very fastest of runs. Nothing wrong with it especially with the new long rods made just for this type of fishing. That year I used a 6 foot, 13 wt sinking line for my sink tip and weighted flys I caught far more winter steelhead than any other year in my life. But with a 8 or 9 wt rod single handed it was more chuck and duck which makes for a long day on the body and soul. The other thing about the set up is that I was hanging up way too much to consider the day a smooth day on the river.

I have watched Ed fish this method as I have floated by and he makes it look really enjoyable. I also look forward to watching Brian S, fish it one of these days. I think about going to the system a lot of nights while at home and weighing the good feeling of casting a smooth cast, where one in every ten mends that get you to where everything is perfect to the Skagit and having not such a smooth cast and a line that gets down right now no matter how you deel with your mend. Again I have not really used the system but watching it I see a fly and a line shooting out over the river in short bursts then coming down hard on the water. I'm not sure that is what I want in my casting but I am open to trying it. My biggest problem is that the good people I fish with will more than likely not invite me to fish anymore. Maybe I will get a Skagit system and keep it in the drift boat and fish it on certain runs way down stream from freinds. Then again if my good fishing buddy would just put up the cash and get one of those loud jet boats he could drop me off a certain runs and wouldn't have to see me using the system.
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  #20  
Old 01-07-2005, 12:30 PM
sinktip sinktip is offline
 
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You have a good fishing buddy? Damn, the charity of steelheaders never ceases to amaze me.
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  #21  
Old 01-07-2005, 01:10 PM
Brian Simonseth Brian Simonseth is offline
 
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Welcome Steve!
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  #22  
Old 01-07-2005, 05:36 PM
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Doublespey Doublespey is offline
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Greetings Salmo G!

Was just thinking back many years to that Skagit Clave we organized thru the old Virtual Fly Shop. Fun(ny) times indeed.

Your question is intriguing and, while I only have speculation, I think this behavior might ~not~ be that unusual. I've watched fry and minnows negotiating across current when spooked from their shallow water lies - they often swim with and into the current a bit and traverse the flow laterally in fits and starts much like our flys progress down and across stream.

Then there are the October Caddis and other large insects capable of swimming on the surface in their limited fashion. They too often navigate across the currents with a slight upstream angle so as not to be swept downstream.

I'm sure that steelhead as fry, as well as adults, see prey moving in a variety of ways in relation to their own movement (holding lies in rivers, as they pass thru traveling lanes in rivers, and in the ocean as they pursue baitfish and other food sources). I think the real key is that a wet fly swing creates a bit of resistance - a disturbance in the water - that is more likely to be noticed by a steelhead.

A dead-drifted fly (or egg or shrimp) is IMHO more likely to provolk a latent feeding response, while I suspect a swung fly (or spoon/spinner/plug) is more versitile and may provolk either a feeding or a defensive response.

Just my own guesses at Steelhead Behaviour - we all catch them (at least some of the time ) but are not even sure why.

My .02 - let the flaming begin!!!

DS
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  #23  
Old 01-07-2005, 07:04 PM
SSPey SSPey is offline
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what about squid? I don't know much about their locomotion, but somehow I sense them drifting and pulsing along, much like a fly on the swing.
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  #24  
Old 01-07-2005, 08:00 PM
Salmo_g Salmo_g is offline
 
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Doublespey,

Greetings to you, too! I miss the VFS forums and the large amount of flytalk available everyday. I decided to look around for fly forums again cuz Iím up to my eyeballs in egg cures at PP and growing weary trying to explain fish management and politics to dolts at GF. If you want to try the Cowlitz together when the late winters show, email me.

OK, I may have rushed to judgement saying that the wet fly swing doesnít resemble any insect or baitfish. In an extremely general sort of way, I have also observed juvenile fish and baitfish (arenít all juvenile fish baitfish?) moving downstream and toward the slow current side of the stream, somewhat like a wet fly swing, absent the tension on the fly by the leader and line. Yet, perhaps that is enough, and explains why fish of many species are positively responsive to it. This topic seemed like a natural follow on to the thread about fly depth and speed.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.
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  #25  
Old 01-07-2005, 09:54 PM
andre andre is offline
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Brian,

Does this mean GFK is coming next?
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  #26  
Old 01-07-2005, 09:55 PM
local local is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salmo_g

I decided to look around for fly forums again cuz Iím up to my eyeballs in egg cures at PP and growing weary trying to explain fish management and politics to dolts at GF. .

I thought you were doing some form of 'pennance' over at GF Salmo !! That or you had the patience of Job. Gotta hand it to you for trying though, I couldn't take it over there. Now, about 'Elvis' ...................

local
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  #27  
Old 01-07-2005, 09:56 PM
wrke wrke is offline
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Salmo g.
We don't know each other, but I was delighted to see you posting here. In the early stages of the VFS, I always looked forward to your informative posts and replies. Welcome.
Bill
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  #28  
Old 01-07-2005, 11:20 PM
SparseHairHackl SparseHairHackl is offline
 
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Ditto what wrke wrote.

I believe it was Salmo g. who several years ago posted about a closeout LL Bean spey reel. I purchased 2, and am still using them. One of the gears has metal that is too soft and wearing, but when it goes I'll just use the LL Bean lifetime satisfaction guarantee to get something different. In the meantime, it's been a great reel.

Welcome to the forum.

--Bill
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  #29  
Old 01-08-2005, 12:51 AM
Riveraddict Riveraddict is offline
 
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...

I have seen plenty of baitfish (sick/injured?) doing perfect imitations of the wet fly swing. Ditto with small lampreys.

I would also venture to say that steelhead theoretically being a predator of a solitary nature (as opposed to the "pack" approach like silvers and Chinook), they are probably quite opportunistic and resort to a "cruise and ambush" approach to feeding. Considering that the ocean is not static, but rather fully laced with many currents, it shouldn't be too much of a stretch to visualize steelhead often encountering prey items drifting or swimming across their field of view left to right or right to left, while gradually closing in distance, much as a fly doing the wet fly swing would appear.

I believe that a dead-drifted fly presented at levels very close to the fish's own, has the capacity to outfish any other form of presenting a fly because it engenders the capability to "take" fish that are in neutral or non-aggressive moods. The wet fly swing requires that a fish have some modicum of aggression or level of interest. HOWEVER, because the dead drifted fly provides no real stimulus for "chase" it tends to catch only fish that happen to be very close to the path of the drifted fly, therefore the "coverage" of each drift of the fly is very narrow in aspect. When searching large expanses of river for a handful of fish this trait is, in my experience, a distinct disadvantage. On the other hand, the wet fly swing provides a very efficient "sweep" search pattern, and its "action" provides a draw that can attract aggressive/active steelhead from a distance of many feet. When fishing larger rivers such as the Skagit or Skykomish, I place far, far, far more confidence in the wet fly swing to make contact with fish.
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  #30  
Old 01-08-2005, 01:52 AM
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Doublespey Doublespey is offline
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could be?

Andre - all I remember was that of all of us there, GFK was the only one to catch a steelhead.
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