|04-07-2007 03:23 PM|
|D3Smartie||i have caught salmon on orange, blue, yellow, pink, white and just about every color line out there. That being said i normally use a Sage line and they are pale yellow in color.|
|04-07-2007 10:30 AM|
In my humble opinion, I think Sinking lines in Summer should be outlawed. A weighted fly is similarly distasteful (maybe illegal).
A salmon will rise to a DRY fly from 10-12 feet, and will hit a wet fly moving quickly by him like a ton of bricks in a heavy rapid (even in high water). What matters is the shadow and not the color. IF the line causes a shadow on the pool over the fish (seen or not seen), then do not cast and wait or find another pool. A fly lines shadow definitely spooks them. Use the angle of the sun to position your casting angle and avoid spooking them. Just my two cents. The shadow is not as important in June when waters are higher BUT CRUCIAL in July when it is often clear and glassy. The angle of the sun and what the fish sees is the point.
OH and I also do not like florescent lines. OH and I use all various shades of opaque yellowish white Wonder Lines depending on the taper.
|04-05-2007 08:39 PM|
The polyleaders are just tungsten covered leader material and get down fairly well. They make them in different densities just like sink tips. RIO and Airflo are the primary manufacturer/resellers. I prefer the Airflo's myself. The work well on floating lines when you need to make a quick adjustment and don't want to re-rig or just plain don't have a tip on you. For my Spey casts I really don't notice them except for the pick-up. I just bought a whole kit and wallet today (non-sponsor link removed)
Barring any unforseen weather event I've not had issues with water height and taking fish. I hear that first week in Gaspe proper the water can be fairly high and you may need one then. Ususally by the 15th everything seems to have normalized, or I'm just plain lucky.
Maybe I'd have taken fish if I'd have gone with a tip or full sinker but as long as it remains clear I like to stick with the floater even if it's a bit high. Mostly I'll work with changing speed with my presentation, slow, fast, got my largest fish ever using "the patent" in a gale (completely by accident mind you). I didn't used to fish this way but some nice guys in Cascapedia took pity on me several years ago and tuned up my presentation
|04-05-2007 07:40 AM|
Thanks Chris for the Matapedia update. On the Gaspe, I never had the need to use sink tips or sinking lines.....but as I said, that is because I didnt fish very early......usually started around July 1. This year may be different.
What is a Polyleader? I am not familiar with that term. You mentioned it relative to slowing down the swing speed. I am curious to know what that is.
Most of my experience on the Gaspe has been on the Matane and Matapedia. On the Matane, the fish dont start coming in until late June. By July 1 there are usually only a few hundred fish in the entire river at best. So when the run is in full swing......usually by July 5 or so, the water levels have dropped to pre-summer conditions.....and #6s - #8s wets are usually used along with dries all with floating lines.
Russia was a different story. You had to use a fast sinking tip in that head of water.......and wieghted flies were also used including big copper tubes.... Gotta tell you that the takes and fights were very hard.....in that water and with those big fish. They angler that I shared the beat with got completely stripped clean down by one of the sea pool on a sinker.....he lost his line and all his backing on that beast. He fished the rest of the day with his spare floater and caught nothing while I cleaned up on a fast sinking tip. You really needed to get your fly down below the fast flowing top levels of water to take them. Have yet to see those types of conditions on the Gaspe.....but then I have not fished in May or early June there YET.......
|04-05-2007 07:22 AM|
Howie, as with everything else your mileage may vary, but I've not had to use tips on the Matapedia. The general feeling is if they are there, and it's a taking fish, sinker or not you'll have good luck. I had one very impressive fish on down below Matapedia in late may, 20+ feet of hard running water over a bar, [cold, cold] cold temps, and rose her 5 times before taking her on the 6th using a floater and #6 fly. Shark like strikes to little taps on the hang down, a tip would have made no difference.
Again, if she's running bank full I'd consider it, most likely use a polyleader just to slow the swing.
To be on topic, the river there is tea colored so I don't think tip color is an issue. If I had my druthers though I like light blue (Carron blue) or white lines, and agree with Peter that a light green tip would be preferred.
I just got a new Guideline F/S1 and discovered it's LEMON YELLOW, what were they thinking???
|04-04-2007 10:00 PM|
Didn't do a good job of explaining myself with the Type 6 reference -- take a Type 6, add a colour coating and it ends up as a Type 2 or 3. Weight is your choice -- make it anything you like. This is what appears to have been done with Guideline PTs as they have a thin black or dark grey tip with the back half coloured. The colour tapers down into the back end of the tip. When you strip off the coating at the back end, the tungsten next to the core is visible, indicating that the entire core is tungsten coated then about two-thirds of it overlaid with colour.
So if you wanted to build a stealthy tip down to at least a Type three, coat a thin core with tungsten then overlay it a colour coating. If white was used, then the tip would probably end up light grey. Ends up dual density to boot.
|04-04-2007 09:36 PM|
You're probably right, my favorite type II & III tips are also not black.
However you have to figure the grain weight impact of adding coating to a type 6. What line weight would the result be? Would you have to compromise in length to stay within the rod rating?
Frankly, I think it's entirely possible to engineer a high-density line with stealthy finish. However I buy the explanation that todays processes won't accomodate it.
There's an opportunity there, everyone will agree to that.
|04-04-2007 06:59 PM|
I buy that explanation for Type 5 and denser, but Type 2s and 3s could be nothing more than a Type 6 with a coating. Guideline PT dual density sinkers are coloured at the back end and dark at the front, demonstrating that up to Type 3 at least, adding colour over the tungsten is easily done.
|04-04-2007 06:31 PM|
I never pay too much attention to MOST of the colors offered by the various dealers. I try to say away from flourescent colors for obvious reasons.....whether they are valid or not.
What I am trying to pay attention to is what line to use during different conditions. Like when is it definately an advantage to using a sinking or sinking tip line. Most of us I assume prefer floaters.
On the Gaspe, most of my experience has been with floaters. I really never started fishing there until July 1 on any given year.
I did fish extensively in Russia with sinking lines in high water on the north Kola rivers. You had such a big head of cold water, and you needed wieghted flies and wieghted lines.... But on the Gaspe I have not had that experience.
So my question is that this year....I may be able to fish in June.....especially on the Matepedia..... IS THE USE OF A SINKING LINE AN ADVANTAGE ON THAT RIVER DURING JUNE????????????
|04-04-2007 05:50 PM|
As a flats rat, I've always wanted a stealthy sinker. I had a discussion with Simon Gawesworth of Rio per the color of sinking lines. Apparently the impregnation of tungsten into the coating makes it any shade you want as long as it's black (or brown).
I guess that adding more coating is not a good option even if it would add camoflage. One of the advantages of hi-density line is thin diameter which makes it work better. To add coating to hide the color increases the diameter and requires more grain weight for less sink due to resistance. So the net result of adding colored coating is a line that requires a higher AFTMA rating that does not sink as well.
I've had good luck with black full sink lines in spooky conditions but they require that the angler "angle", literally. The presentation of a fly is much more limited with a full sink line but that (albeit narrow) presentation window is not available with other lines.
For instance, you can catch spooky fish all day on a shallow flat if you get headshots instead of other angles. Thats more about where you stand, and when (tide etc).
You can catch the spookiest August steelhead with a 15ft black tip if you hang it down right in the seam from a good angle above.
I sometimes put sinking lines on client's rods when the tides are heavy and the fish are in a fast running gut, even in bright sunlight. Angle is everything and it's easy to spook the fish with that but anything else and you go fishless.
For mid-summer Gaspe' salmon fishing a floater requires the care of a sinker in other venues! I've only fished it in June before the real low conditions set in. I shall have to experiment more in the days to come!
|04-04-2007 03:01 PM|
I'm more concerned with the line in the air, casting over gin clear water conditions where there is a relatively smooth surface. The fish see everything. I've watched trout scatter as my fluorescent orange line rolled out under these sorts of conditions, and while salmon may not scatter, it might make them hunker down. The Kiwis make a big deal about this.
We have success with a fluorescent line and we conclude that the colour didn't matter. Perhaps under the conditions we were fishing, it didn't. Then again, under different conditions perhaps we would have beached an extra fish or two with a less conspicuous line. No way to know one way or the other.
I'll err on the side of caution.
BTW, totally agree with you about the colour of full sinkers. Never made any sense to me either. In freshwater, a very pale green would probably be best.
|04-04-2007 02:11 PM|
For floating lines, I don't think it makes any difference since the leader and tippet are many feet from the line. I want to be able to easily see the line though; therefore, I use visible floating lines in lighte or florescent colors.
With sinking lines, it was established many years ago by the US Navy that the least visible color underwater was plain, non-florescent white. Unfortunately, anglers have decided that sunk lines need to be dark colored greys, browns, olives, or black to "make them less alarming" to fish. I would really like to see sink tip and sunk lines made in white or very light grey. I know, probably wishful thinking since nearly all anglers think the dark sunk lines are less visible or alarming despite the research on visibility of colors underwater.
|04-04-2007 02:07 PM|
About a 14 or 15' leader on my 1398 Burkheimer . . . casting distances probably 45' and up (although I certainly start much closer). Normal longish casts are 75 to 90 ft, although good to 110 or 120 (or more). But those distances are not often req'd.
|04-04-2007 01:23 PM|
What sort of leader do you use on the XLT and what's the typical fishing distance?
|04-04-2007 10:44 AM|
With good casting I don't think color makes any difference whatsoever . . . with one exception. My single handed lines are ivory (Wulff), double handed lines are light blue (Jetstream), bright orange (XLT), white/ivory (Scierra MWF) plus dark full-sinking lines and tips (I've also just purchased a SA Skagit, and the line is coral.) The one exception concerns clear intermediate lines and tips. In bright sunshine they glow like they were made of neon. I slightly roughen the surface and dye them. With the exception of sink tips, most of my leaders are from 14 to 20 feet in length.
Actually, I forgot that I have a new 5/6 CND black spey rod for trout that I haven't used yet and the 18' intermediate tip of the CND line is opaque light olive color. Excellent looking tip.
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