Lee Wulff - Trivia [Archive] - Fly Fishing Forum

Lee Wulff - Trivia

01-23-2003, 08:02 PM
"Some Flies I have Designed and Fished With" Lee Wulff - 1987. Grays Sporting Journal

"Fishing wet is more effective than fishing dry since trout do most their feeding underwater most of the time , so I was fishing wet much more than I fished dry. Somehow I got started using a very simple nymph which was just a plain Gray Wulff body without any adornments. Soon I was catching most of my trout on it. I tried to get customers to buy some. They didn't. Then I reduced the price to 15 cents each. thinking that a bargain might draw some sales. No one, apparently wanted to insult the trout they were fishing for with a cheap, 15 cent fly. I don't believe I sold a single one of those nondescript nymphs I was finding so effective. even though I fully dressed them up with a couple of turns of peacock herl at the head.

Theres a strange sequel to this story. In 1970 at one of Charles Ritz's Fario Club dinners at his famous hotel in Paris I sat next to Frank Sawyer, recognized as the premier nymph fisherman in England. In the course of our conversation he asked "What do you think I catch most of my fish on ?

A medium sized gray nymph I replied. He turned sideways in his chair, fished into his pocket, and brought out a box of nymphs. There it was in his hand a simple gray wool body on a #12 hook. I held the box in my hand while he dug into his pocket again.and came up with another box. Here he said is what I have to do to sell them. I put a winding of gold tinsel on them and a little darker material at the head.

Maybe he was a better salesmen than I or the fact that a lot of people saw him fish helped out. I had tried to sell those nymphs in New York when none of my customers had ever seen them work on the stream".

Lesson learned, simple flies work.

Growing up fishing the Catskill rivers we always had our simple gray nymphs, and they worked.

I am sure they will also work today.

PM Out

01-23-2003, 08:39 PM
Hal...Love this stuff!

01-23-2003, 08:40 PM
Kind of like the simple grren caddis eh? Greys, greems, and browns are killer.

Probably because everything they have eaten (river wise) was a shade on that color. Never saw a pink hopper or mayfly in the brush.

I have always found the KISS theory to be true many times in fishing. All those beautiful flies many times were tied to attract the fishermans eye and not the fish.

John Desjardins
01-24-2003, 08:12 AM
Yes simple flies work. But we still love the complex ones. Such are the philosphical debates that get us through the winter.

01-24-2003, 08:34 AM
After rereading this Lee Wullf article from my collection of Grays Sporting Journals (I started buying them in 1979, only the fly fishing ones) I am going to tie some more simple nymphs in gray, olive, black, etc....

Keep it simple.

PM Out

01-24-2003, 09:39 AM
Our (GL) Steelhead seem to love them. I have a box stuffed with them. If you have ever been lucky enough to be Steelhead fishing on a warm April day you see the sky black with them.

When that happens the big Steelies really turn on. They must be impulse feeding while spawning.

01-24-2003, 11:07 AM
I think I will do a series on Lee Wulff trivia.

I met him once back east, and he lived the last years of his life in the Catskill region rivers I learned to love during my teenage and twenty year fly fishing years. At 29 is was off to the GLs for fly fishing.

PM Out

01-24-2003, 07:41 PM
Same source as previous one. (I bought this volume of Grays Sporting Journal in 1987 just for this story by Lee Wulff. I am very glad made that decision)

Joan and I were giving a trout fishing school for Garcia and the Sportsmen Club on the Elk River neat Steamboat Springs in the summer of 1969. In the evenings after fishing I'd tie flies along with the other members of the group. As we were about to finish and clean up one the night, the discussion, turned to the question of the need for the fancy feathers that cost so much. I allowed that most of those feathers were for beauty as we saw it, for our own enjoyment, more than for effectiveness with the fish. I went further and said that the stuff fly tyers throw away could make as effective a fly as any one needed.

Reaching down into the waste materials scattered on the floor I picked up some hackle of soft, feathery butts of the hackles that every one throws away saying. " Here's some poor mans marabou". Then I found enough gray wool to make a body and a tiny bit of bright yellow yarn. From these I fashioned a nymph with a gray body, a yellow tail and four legs of the soft fluffy gray fibers off the hackle stems. It looked like a crawly thing to me and though the trout didn't have it on their list of known bugs, when it hit the river they felt a real urge to see what it tasted like. Charlie Meyers, outdoor writer for the Denver Post sang out I have a name for it! The Wretched Mess. I make it weighted and unweighted, a simple fly of simple materials.

Lesson learned:

Don't throw away those butt fibers on your hackle feathers, they have many uses for nymphs and wet flies. I have an excess material bag of this stuff which has many uses.

Well time to tie some more natural simple looking nymphs ! :D

I will work on some more Lee Wulff trivia also.

PM Out

01-25-2003, 12:08 PM
Feathers are fairly cheap. This is frugality running amuck.

Whats next M.S. trivia????:D

01-25-2003, 12:15 PM
Why waste good fly tying material. Lee Wulff didn't either !

Pm Out

01-26-2003, 10:31 AM
Howard Hughes saved all his hair and toenails, what does that tell you?

I have a feeling Lee tossed a whole bunch in his day.

01-26-2003, 11:55 PM
As great as Lee Wulff was, he did not know how to tie full dressed feather wing salmon flies, perhaps that is why he had no use for the "fancy feathers". I had the great priviledge of meeting him and seeing him tie a #12 Grey Wulff in his fingers (no vise and no bobbin) while standing up at a FFF Flyfishing Clave in 1981 in West Yellowstone. Lee was a gentleman and a very knowledgeable fisherman; however, he was not a great flytyer, although he tied flies that worked and worked very well. If it were not for Dan Bailey and his tyers, Wulff's flies would not have developed the following they have.

Yes, simple grey, black, brown, olive, and tan nymphs tied with a sparse tail, wool or herl body, without wing cases and having a turn or two of soft, mottled hackle at the head are very efffective indeed. For the large stoneflies, flies tied the way Charlie Brooks (who I also has the pleasure of meeting and getting to know) that are tied in the round with wool or yarn bodies, split goose or turkey biot tails (or rubber legs material tails), and a grizzly hackle dyed brown or tan along with a natural grizzly hackle tied over the thorax of the fly (right over the yarn or wool) and with a white or very light grey ostrich fiber that are all wrapped just two wraps over the thorax with a slight space between the two wraps is most effectie as well.

Eastern helgramites tied like Bob Clouser's Helgramite, black or very dark slate grey ostrich fibers (about 15 or 20 of them) tied like the marabou tail of a woolly bugger and clipped off a full shank length beyong the hook, a black chenile body, black or very dark slate grey saddle hackle palmered woolly bugger style, and black rubber antennae is a superb fly for smallmouths.

And small (#8 to 12) steelhead or salmon spiders tied low water style with no tails; a bright little (and I mean little, only one turn of material) butt of florescent braided mylar, yarn or floss; body of black, purple, dark blue, or claret, dubbing; and a sparse oversized hackle in black, claret, or purple is a superb fly for the skinny water of late summer or early fall.

01-31-2003, 08:12 PM
"In 1962 I travelled to Scotland to fish competitively for salmon on the Dee. with "Jock Scott" pen name for Donald Rudd, the most widely read writer on salmon fishing at that time. I used my 6 foot, ounce and three quarter bamboo rod which he labelled a "toy". He used his 161/2 foot greenheart Grant Vibration Rod.

I caught a salmon on a White Wulff dry fly (where George Labranche had failed with the dry fly) and he caught none. I had spent a week of practice on the river before our contest week, to learn the river and to test my flies."

I would of loved to have been there to see the looks on the Scot's faces. Malcolm can you lend more from the Scottish salmon fisherman's perspective on this ?

PM Out

01-31-2003, 08:39 PM
And to think he probably didn't use a spey.

Never heard much talk of him with the long rod. I alwyas wondered if he ever used one.

01-31-2003, 10:05 PM
Wulff was one of several fly fishing writers and profesional fly fishers who extolled the virtues of short rods. He never used a 2-hander that I am aware of and he disparaged them quite often in his recounting of various exploits while fishing for Atlantic Salmon (as he did in the passage Hal quoted).

Interestingly, after graphite rods had become the norm, Wulff began writing about using 9 ft graphite rods as being the best all around rods, when before graphite hit the market, he wrote that it was uncessary to use a rod of over 7 1/2 feet for any fresh water fish for the average fisherman.

I suspect Wulff was simply telling people that they did not have to learn specialized casts (like the spey), buy special lines (like the long double taper speys), or spend a lot of money on fly gear.

I wonder why he disparaged classic feather wings, spey flies, 2-hand rods, and spey casting. Perhaps it was because he couldn't tie the feather wings or spey flies properly? Keep in mind that Wulff's flies are really pretty easy to tie. And he certainly did not know how to spey cast and wrote that he felt the extra long 2-handers were too big and heavy for fishing. Too bad he never moved beyond his prejudice against 2-handers to actually use one.

I can't really fault him for his anti-spey though, all of the American fishing scribes of his vintage had no use for 2-handers and spey casting. Bates was just as bad in his bias against 2-handers, at least Bates was not opposed to using spey and classic featherwing flies.

And he was still a terrific fly fisherman and a gentleman too boot.

01-31-2003, 10:41 PM
I remember these arguements continuing through the 50s and 60s. Lots of emotion about "sporting" attributes of short, light rods. Long arguments, too, sometimes lasting hours.

Let's be truthful - assuming the same "action" (bend characteristics), a longer rod gives the fish more leverage to fight against his opponent (us). I would hazard a guess that's what "sport" is about.

In fact, carry the short rod to its ultimate conclusion, and you end up with a handline - and who wants to do that?

They all have a place. For fishing small, brush choked streams - even overhead - a small rod wins hands down.

For a larger stream, and room to back cast, the longer rod wins out. It mends better, too!

On large rivers, especially with no room to back cast, the spey wins the contest.

Just some personal observations.


02-01-2003, 04:02 PM
FYI: I fished with a 7 foot trout rod 6 weight for the first 19 years of my fly fishing journey. That was for stream trout back east. Last 23 years have been 9-13 footers in the great lakes. I don't think I need to go any longer than 13 foot, after all look what Lee did on the Dee with that small trout rod.

L. Wulff Trivia - 4

"On the Moise River in Quebec in 1964 a small group of us who were guests of Alain and Marc Prefontaine formed the Sixteen/Twenty club. To be eligible for membership an angler had to catch a salmon of over twenty pounds on a # 16 fly, something that had never been done before. The basic problem I saw was to create a fly on that tiny hook that would be big enough to attract a big salmon. To do it I crammed the shank with bivisible hackles, and for good measure, added a long snoot of bucktail to give it a maximum bulk. As it turned out it also gave the fly a flip-flop action on the surface when retrieved as a skater. Alain Prefontaine caught a twenty and a half pound salmon that first evening and the fly became the Prefontaine.

Since that time I have caught a great many salmon on that fly, the largest a twenty seven pounder. That pattern is one of my favorites, one of the most effective. The salmon make dramatic rises when they come for that fly, usually coming at least part of the way out of the water in their surge to catch it. In 1985 on the Restigouche, I caught a ten pound salmon on a Prefontaine tied on a # 28 hook for another first in angling."

What a master angler and creative genius Lee was, do you know how small a size 28 hook is !!

PM Out

02-01-2003, 06:09 PM
I always felt that a lot of these writers(especially LW) had the me, I syndrome.

Liked Zane and RHB, guess it has to do with their style more than anything else.

02-04-2003, 07:35 PM
Originally posted by pmflyfisher

Growing up fishing the Catskill rivers we always had our simple gray nymphs, and they worked.

I am sure they will also work today.

PM Out

i'm sure they would but with all the presure the fish get today it is getting harder to "match the hatch"

02-04-2003, 08:25 PM
L. Wulff on changing salmon flies.
Source: Salmon on a Fly - 1976

"The fly options are many, but I believe the angler who has the widest capability of covering the widest number of fly categories in the right sizes, both wet and dry, and the judgement to use them well is the most deadly fisherman of all"

More justification for tying and having more flys.

"Some the categories for salmon wet flys are: 1- standard, 2- hair fly, 3- low water, 4- muddler, 5 - tube fly, and 6 - nymph. I like to change categories then sizes, and finally patterns within the categories"

Another wet fly category is streamers.

Another on river variable for us to think about, fly changing strategy. The complexity never ends, god I love this sport.

PM Out

02-18-2003, 06:00 AM
Time has passed Lee Wuld by.

His scoffing at the long rod was a big mistake. he completely missed the ball on the long rod revolution in North America.

It always seemed to me he was more into showing people up instead of learning. His catching big salmon on a small rod is a prime example. What a way to waste a fish.

Give me RHB or Norman McClean anyday.

02-18-2003, 07:31 AM
SDH... I think you are overcomplicating flyfishing. All too often, with everyone trying to "match the Hatch", the simple, old flies do the trick - try "a plain gray nymph" when things get tough.

Hal - I usually start fishing by spending time "watching the water", then, depending on the activity I see, I put on a favored pattern. If the fish aren't hitting, and no one else is getting either, I stick with it while the other guys are busily changing patterns. Suddenly, I start catching fish (while few others are caught). Not one after the other, but enough to keep me interested. I think this occurs because I keep my fly in the water, in plain sight of the fish, fishing it. The rest of the guys are wasting fishing time, changing flies and improving their knot-tying skills.

If someone else is having luck, and I'm not, I politely inquire what they're using. Then, I change to that fly (or a pattern resembling it) and catch fish.

Of course, when a hatch arises, I figure what it is, then tie on a fly to match, or maybe change from a nymph to a streamer if I observe trout activity chasing minnows.

What I am saying is this: Use what you see the fish doing. Observation is a hell of a lot better than conjecture!


02-18-2003, 08:41 AM

I cannot divulge my tactics on a public world wide fly fishing forumn such as this. You will have to come fishing with me some day and then you will have to try and keep up with me. Which many others have failed to do over the 43 years of fly fishing career. They were fly fishing "wannabes" who could not endure the complex challenges, physical and mental pain, and of course the greatest test of all fly fisherman, failure.

Give me a "Few good men flyfishers" the hard core types, you know what I am talking about.

PM Out

P.S. The only ones on the forumn that may be able to keep up with me are Juro and Striblue from the adjectives I have seen used to describe their fly fishing style. But that is only hearsay evidence, no direct experience yet on that.

02-18-2003, 09:43 AM
"When I was young and foolish", I used to get up well before dawn, climb cliffs that were thought "unscaleable" by others, bounce off trees in the dark, and put up with physical pain and abuse myself to get "back in" to the secret places, so I could catch more fish than anyone else.

As we get older, we don't get any smarter, regardless of what old wives' tales tell us. We still do dumb things at times. But I think we just learn that the REAL objective of fishin' is to JUST HAVE FUN! And that is the secret! I think we appreciate the fish we catch more - and numbers don't have a thing to do with it. (But I, for one, do catch "more than my share" of fish", as the other fisherman tell me every time out.)

I think that by taking a more relaxed attitude, we take the time to be more observant, and also to enjoy the beauty of our surroundings. I also think that "instinct" and "that feeling" have an awful lot to do with our successes, from fly selection, and method, to water to fish, and how to fish it. Some also call it "experience", but the "hunches" are more "instinctive", at least for me. (Think about that next time you pull out your back, or sprain an ankle!)

I guess my feeling is that if you are more a part of nature, you tend to be more successful. Or maybe these are the ramblings of an "old man".



02-18-2003, 12:46 PM
Originally posted by pmflyfisher

P.S. The only ones on the forumn that may be able to keep up with me are Juro and Striblue from the adjectives I have seen used to describe their fly fishing style. But that is only hearsay evidence, no direct experience yet on that.

Aren't you the guy who asked for heaters at out Clave at the end of April?

And complains about how he can't do what he used to because of being 55?

Totally confusing references. Or a contradiction of terms.

02-18-2003, 03:20 PM
I'm the guy who was in Yellowstone for the season opener (Memorial Day weekend) last year, with a bunch of guys less than half my age, camped out in tents at Madison campground (in the Park) when it got into the 20s and snowed at night - every night we were there. No complaints here - we had FUN, threw snowballs at each other, and caught lots of fish! Yeah, we did sit close to the fire and imbibe some spirits at night, but it was a good bunch of guys, and we had fun.

Funny how a big caddis hatch looks in a snowstorm!

PS - I wish I was still 55! That's a long time ago!


02-18-2003, 03:53 PM
What do you think. Look at the message again.

02-19-2003, 08:54 AM

I was just kidding about the heaters of course.

Yes I have slowed down at 55 a little bit I only run 2-3 miles a day now instead of 4-5 miles, and lift less weight than 10 years ago. But I know I am still fit enough to take on the younger fellows in a hard winters steelheading day, or even 4-5 in a row like I did last spring.

PM Out

P.S. I have lots more L. Wulff trivia coming been doing some more research. ;) ;)

02-19-2003, 10:23 AM
Source: Rod and Reel - The Journal of American Angling
Number Ten September/October - 1980
Lee Wulff

When Should You Keep and Kill a Trout ?

We have no kill waters spreading all over the country. They please so many trout fisherman that there is no chance they will ever be abolished. They offer the maximum number of fish to fish for, and they provide fishing for the maximum number of people. No kill waters are crowded. Take home waters, as we know them now, are not. Good management calls for best trout waters to be basically no-kill. Perhaps, though, we can take some of these fine fine waters, and in rotation, allow some trophy fish to be taken from them. After several years of no kill, if fish of more than a certain size (which would vary with particular streams) could be kept during the one season, damage to the stocks would not be great. Those trophy trout by that time would have been caught and released quite a few times and would be smart enough to be real trophies/ After all the season of trophy taking , the water could revert to no-kill for another five years.

One thing is certain with our ever -expanding population, we can never have enough wild trout to satisfy the desires of those who want fish to keep and eat. Only through hatcheries can we reach this goal.

When do I, personally, keep trout ? If I fish on private water and my host says "Lee, keep your trout. We'll have them for breakfast," of course I keep them. If I'm fishing wilderness water where there is little angling pressure, I'll keep fish to eat, but they'll be the smaller fish of my catch, not the big, best breeders. The rest of my fish go back as a gift to other anglers.

Note, Lee Wulff was one of the primary people responsible for the establishment of no kill trout fishing on the NYS Catskill - Beaverkill and Willowemuc rivers in 1965 or 1966. I know because I fished those rivers from the early 1960s through 1979, when living back east. Sections of them remain no kill to this day artificial lures only. Still great fishing as Bob K can attest, but probably not as good as I remember in the early 1960s. Ten -20 fish days were common.

I beleive the Beaverkill and Willowemuc rivers were the first in american to have no kill artificial only sections installed on them.

L. Wulff was also the conservation leader for the protection of the North American Atlantic Salmon for many years. With out his efforts starting in the 1940s through the day he died in 1991 who knows what state our Atlantic Salmon may be in and they are shaky ground even with all of the present conservation efforts started by L. Wulff.

IMHO L. Wulff is the father of trout and salmon conservation philosophies in North America. I think that is the one thing he would want to be remembered for above all others.

PM Out

02-19-2003, 03:30 PM
PM you're older than my old man

02-19-2003, 03:45 PM
Thanks I needed that !


PM Out

02-20-2003, 10:53 AM

Bobk and MGYP

Going to go run 4 miles, right now through the forest preserves its such a nice day sunny, 45 degrees, blue sky, no wind. Final part of the hard core GLs winter steelheader master plan to prepare for the upcoming endurance tests. Will end with about 10 minutes of the stairmaster for the hill and muck swamp walking preparation.

Hope your doing the same, if not, you will have a hard time keeping up with me on a real GLs steelheader winter fishing excursion.



Pm Out

02-20-2003, 12:05 PM
Take a jaunt thru the Dan Ryan Woods it will up your speed 10 fold. Just don't feed the dogs.

Not worried about keeping up with you, you have never fished the Indy. creeks (or so you said). Been thru muck, snow, ice, clay pit up to my hips. Over trees, etc.

In fishing it is not the first guy that wins the race, its the patient one who does.

Dble Haul
02-20-2003, 12:33 PM
Originally posted by mjyp
In fishing it is not the first guy that wins the race, its the patient one who does.

This is one of the most concise and on-point comments I've seen around here in a long time. Well said.

02-20-2003, 03:35 PM
you're only older than him by six years

02-20-2003, 03:39 PM
Don't worry I have lots of patience also, you have to after 43 years of fly fishing !

PM Out

02-20-2003, 03:45 PM
for those of you w/ kid that fish does it seem that they catch more than you because i usually out fish my dad and unlce

02-20-2003, 04:08 PM
It happend once, my youngest son (15) out fished me in South Dakota. Thats it. But I had to show him where to put the lure to catch those trout. :D

PM Out

02-20-2003, 04:48 PM
i always seem to out fish my dad but my uncle beats me once and a while my dad like to fish for panfish a lot so he does out fish me if i'm fishing for bass.

02-20-2003, 05:55 PM
Part of the joy of being a parent (grandparent, too!) is setting the little ones up so they will get lots of action from the fish. When I took my kids fishing, often I didn't even take my rod (or if I did, never got to use it.)

May seem strange to you now, but it's not when you're a parent.
You want the kids to have fun, maybe even let them throw rocks in the river if they feel like it! What you try to give is a feeling of closeness to the outdoors. Help them, but don't be an authoritarian. Just share the time with them. It pays dividends.

As a result, I never had a major problem with them, and they all turned out well. Good, sound marriages (son is still a bachelor, though.) and my grandkids to dote on.

And my oldest daughter is still an excellent fisherman, as is my son. My middle daughter had fun, but would rather be a social animal - to each his own.


02-20-2003, 07:29 PM
Originally posted by pmflyfisher

Hope your doing the same, if not, you will have a hard time keeping up with me on a real GLs steelheader winter fishing excursion.


Pm Out

Don't need to keep up with you, I'd rather waste my energy on fighting fish then shooting down a path.

Dble Haul
02-20-2003, 09:16 PM
I normally don't follow the salmon boards, but this thread has peaked my interest. In particular are some comments like this one.....

Originally posted by pmflyfisher

P.S. The only ones on the forumn that may be able to keep up with me are Juro and Striblue from the adjectives I have seen used to describe their fly fishing style. But that is only hearsay evidence, no direct experience yet on that.

Hal, how can you make this assertion when you've never fished with any other forum members? With all due respect, do you really believe this? Some other comments you've made in this thread and others could leave some of us to believe that you have a very high opinion of yourself, and that would be unfortunate. Some things don't translate well on the internet, and I just want you to be aware that some of this has the potential to make you look like a chest-thumping braggart.

It's not about who can keep up with who on a trail, or who can "take on" other anglers.....it's about enjoyment, plain and simple.

I'm only saying this to give you some perspective.....no offense intended.

02-22-2003, 08:23 PM
my dad doesn't let me out fish him i just do.

04-24-2003, 12:06 PM
Another great quote from Lee Wulff.

Found on Gstrand's web site one of our forumn members, thanks we will add it to the Lee Wulff legacy.

"Somewhere in the wide range of activity between the hard physical effort of wading for long hours against a swift current in a rocky stream, casting steadily, and the indolence of lying quietly in the sun waiting for a bobber to go under there is a type of angling to suit everyone’s mood and everyone’s pocketbook. Fishing is fishing wherever it is found… Angling’s problems are never solved."

-Lee Wulff, in his Handbook of Freshwater Fishing, 1939.

Pm Out

P.S. Dblehaul, I noticed your comment above, I have not been back to this thread in a long time and had not seen it. Of course that was a tongue in cheek internet comment to MJYP one of my GLs colleagues who likes to kid about things. One cannot believe everything that is written on the internet thats for sure.

Got to go and run my three miles now at lunch, yes I do keep in shape to be able to go long and hard on the steelhead rivers. At 55 it is getting tougher, beleive me !

04-24-2003, 12:52 PM
I like Wulff's style and something I think he would agree with if he did not say it himself is:

90% of catching fish is going where there are fish, 10% is a combination of presentation, fly selection and luck. Of course the latter is moot if the first condition is not met.

So if you can find your way to where there are lots of fish, whether you pay the big bucks or trek into the wilderness, you are going to catch fish.


04-24-2003, 02:11 PM
That's true for most of us. However, Hal has no trouble hooking 'em, he just can't land 'em.:devil:


Rob Estlund
05-16-2003, 01:42 PM
Hal, since you're age 55 or better, have been fly fishing for 43+ years, and you have made over 3000 posts on this board alone, I'm sure you've had some trouble with your wrists by now. That's one of the main reasons many people begin using spey rods. I have another suggestion that might help.

Put the following comment in your forum signature (on the edit profile page) so you don't have to retype it in every one of your 3000+ posts.

"I'm Hal. I'm 55+ years old. I've been flyfishing for 43+ years. I've been fishing great lakes steelhead for 23+ years. I was fly fishing before fly fishing was cool. I wish I had a 5120-4. PM Out."

That should save your keystrokes by about half -- much easier on the wrists. You might even save enough cumulative time to go on a fishing trip and I'm sure Juro would appreciate the extra server space. ;-)

05-16-2003, 02:35 PM
I was going to use that on mine.

05-19-2003, 05:17 PM
No problem with my wrists, trying working out with weights 5 days a week and running 10-15 miles a week, that will keep you in shape for fly fishing.


PM Out

Pat Bahan
02-01-2004, 04:38 PM
You seem to have fallen off the earth. Hope you and yours are all O.K. I've lost your personals. (I turned 50 Christmas Eve. That's my excuse anyway.) Give me an e-mail or call.

02-01-2004, 07:46 PM
hal made one post about a moth ago or so but hasn't been here much
anyone know why?