North Umpqua river 2003 regs; interesting read. - Fly Fishing Forum
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Old 12-16-2002, 10:55 AM
fredaevans fredaevans is offline
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North Umpqua river 2003 regs; interesting read.

fr the N. Ump River from fly area boundary above Rock Creek, tostream to Soda Springs Dam.

"Restricted to use of a single babless UNWEIGHTED artificial fly. for the purposes of this rule, an unweighted artificial fly is defined as: 'a conventional hook that is dressed with natural or artificial materials, and to which no molded weight (such as split shot, jig heads or dumbell eyes), metal wire, metal beads, bead chain eyes, or plastic body are affixed, and to which no added weight, spinning or attractor device, or natural bait is attached."

Any type rod or reel permitted, but no metal core lines and no added weights or attacments to line, leader or (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, STRIKE INDICATORS) except nonfly monofilament lines may have a casting bubble or similar floating device."

Well with the elimination of 'strike indicators,' Sparkies dead meat if he comes south of the Wash. border. Understand you need a float/bobber to cast mono line, but fail to see how/why they would 'prohibit' the use of a strike indicator. No better 'strike indicator' than a bubble float ducking under. But does the language ("no metal core lines") now allow the use of sink tip lines (or sinking leaders)?

Where's Hal and his Legal Beagle co-horts when we need a legal interpretation?

fae
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Old 12-16-2002, 11:32 AM
Jeff Jeff is offline
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Fred,

These have actually been the rules in one form or another for the last two summers. I love this place and even though it was a pain to accept it this is a good thing for the fish and the river. It was about reducing the number of hook ups on holding fishing.

The strike indicator guys went nuts but they are now figuring out how to hook fish with out the use of a bobber. This could start up the whole raging debate again but when you would see a guy camp in Boat and hook a fish every 10 to 15 and never move it really soured me on it. these fish were holding fish not taking fish. I used to fish weighted leaches and such b but only for 1 fish a day and if i happen to take one on something weighted nonweighted stuff went on. Never a need to abuse a resource.

Flame away.

JJ
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Old 12-16-2002, 11:51 AM
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pmflyfisher pmflyfisher is offline
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Now this is my type of steelhead fly fishing challenge.

We need more of this particularly on wild rivers.

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Old 12-16-2002, 12:42 PM
New Spey New Spey is offline
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sink tips

You can now use sinking lines. The first year they changed, they didn't
allow them, but for the last year they have. I don't see all that many people fishing spinning gear with bubbles. And even if they do they can't weight the hook.
My only problem with the new regs is that it hurts some of the local businesses up there, like Joe Howel's. I think it would have been best if they just eliminated the spinning tackle and and strike indicators. Force people to use their fly line as the indicator. This would make it harder to drift the fly right into the fishes mouth, without taking away the ability to sink the fly.
I personally liked it when they went to dry line only. From an angling perspective, the numbers of fishers declined, freeing up all sorts of water. Also the fish seemed to be more aggressive, since they didn't have sinking lines and flies pushing through them day after day. Also forced me to stick to it and not resort to easier techniques.
That being said, I respect others right to use their own favorite techniques and am glad they became more lenient. Also less fishers would force great people like Joe Howel out of business and cost us all a valued resource.
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Old 12-16-2002, 01:21 PM
flytyer flytyer is offline
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Folks,

I wish Washington state would ban the use of strike indicators and weighted flies on the 3 fly only steelhead waters in the state. On the rest of the steelhead water in Washington, I have no problem with the use of weighted flies and indicators being used. I simply would like to see the 3 fly only rivers not allowed to fish indicators or weighted flies.

In the Seattle area that would mean that the North Fork Stilliguamish would be effected from April 16th to November 30th, after which it goes from fly only to any gear type. On the Olympic Penninsula in would mean that the upper Hoko would be effected from December 1st ro March 15th. And the upper Kalama would be effected year round.

I don't think that having these 3 rivers being limited to unweighted flies and banning strike indicators on them is too much to ask.

Fred, to my knowledge (and I freely acknowledge that I may be wrong since I don't live in Oregon) the nOrth Umqua is the only Oregon steelhead river with these regulations. Am I correct. If so, I think that it is a good thing. Especially since there are waters within an hour to 2 hour drive that have steelhead and that don't have the unweighted fly, indicator ban.
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Old 12-16-2002, 03:41 PM
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I don't know of any other rivers in NA that have similar rules such as banning indicators and weighted flies specifically.

Sounds like you can still use sinking lines, thank god how else would you get the darn things down to the fish in that river ?

Looks like there is no hook size limit though so you could use a heavy 3/0 or 4/0 hook to weight the fly and get it down. I have heard this technique is used on the NU, true ?

Heck I may have to empty half of my steelhead flies out of my walletts before fishing the NU.

No wonder Fred doesn't bother to fish the NU and he is close to it!

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Old 12-16-2002, 04:01 PM
fredaevans fredaevans is offline
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"FT" I think your right that the above requirements are

specific to the north fork of the Umpq. Other water's (like the upper Rogue) may be fly only water, and may at points require barbless hooks. But the hook business has more to do with releasing 'wild' (e.g. non-clipped) fish. The Rogue requires you carry a copy of the game regs. as there all over the place on the who, what, when and where.

Trout are a good example: open for "trout" fishing but only if it's a clipped fish. From Jan 1 to April 30 (in some parts of the river) you can keep up to 5 'unclipped' fish at/over 24" in length. Below that they're considered a trout and a no-no..... and a $300!!! fine per fish. A cutthroat .... DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT! One in your bag could get you a ride in the Paddywagon to go see the Judge.
fae
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Old 12-17-2002, 01:00 AM
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loco_alto loco_alto is offline
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yup, these rules essentially unchanged from last year. They work just fine for me.

The comment about 3/0 and 4/0 hooks is correct (somewhere in the archives I requested info on the heaviest hooks available for this exact reason). Realize however that the N. Ump is a big fly river if ever there was one, and big flies are standard for getting takes anyway (not required, but it is a big fly river). I've switched to saltwater 2/0 for additional heft. I prefer a slightly heavier fly and floating line with long leader, instead of a sinktip. This helps me get a deep drift of the fly through slots via mending, then a rising swing in front of the fish.

Rumor has it that heavy fly hooks are in development for such situations.

and fred, only lead core lines (and their ilk) are illegal. If it remains bent, then its illegal. Standard sink tips and sinking leaders are fine, as long as they return to shape when bent. I find that an odd rule.... "get bent" :hehe:

PS - that's the beloved river in my photo

Last edited by loco_alto; 12-17-2002 at 01:03 AM.
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Old 12-17-2002, 01:20 AM
fredaevans fredaevans is offline
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Ah yes, "bent...."

Brought paperwork home from the office; on line responding to a couple of days of "bs." Three double singles .. and as I type this, I think (at 11:20pm) I'm getting 'bent.'

Where do these People??? dream up this horse manure?? Got to be a "rice bowl" thing; no other logical answer.

Sheesh.
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Old 12-17-2002, 01:27 AM
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you lost me on the rice bowl ..?
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Old 12-17-2002, 08:22 AM
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Hey Fred when I come out there I must fish the NU in addition to the Rogue so start up your knowledge of the best places to fish since I will expect a knowledgeable "indian guide".

See you can use sinking lines and large hooks that is better than I thought, as long as I can use my nymphs I will be OK.

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Old 12-17-2002, 01:06 PM
fredaevans fredaevans is offline
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Manual writers, you just gotta love them. :>)

Quote:
Originally posted by loco_alto
you lost me on the rice bowl ..?
Loco, the rice bowl reference points out that the folks who write a lot of the regulations (almost any regulation) usually are clueless on the impact of what comes out of the end of their pens. I sometimes swear that a lot of this stuff is created to justify the 'writers' job/pay check/'rice bowl.'

(Keeping in mind that I'm in Banking) Far too frequently regs/laws are written for Atty's, by Atty's to be ajudicated in front of other Attys. Even here on the Rogue, you have to carry a copy of the game regs in the car with you at all times, check the calendar, and where are you on the river. And the fine, if you don't, can be very very stiff.

And, given most of our game checkers are actually Oregon State Police officers, they usually don't mess around.
fae
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Old 12-17-2002, 01:18 PM
fredaevans fredaevans is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by pmflyfisher
Hey Fred when I come out there I must fish the NU in addition to the Rogue so start up your knowledge of the best places to fish since I will expect a knowledgeable "indian guide".

See you can use sinking lines and large hooks that is better than I thought, as long as I can use my nymphs I will be OK.

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Hal, when you're ready I'm good to go! Some of the best fishing water on the upper Rogue is about 20 minutes from the bank's front door. The NU is about a 2 hour drive north of Medford. Now you know why I don't stray up the highway very often.
:>)
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Old 12-17-2002, 03:23 PM
SparseHairHackl SparseHairHackl is offline
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Hal,

I'd be happy to show you the North Umpqua. Maybe I can get you guys to let me tag along when Fred shows you the Rogue, then I can show you the Umpqua...I thiiiinnk I have a bit more experience than Fred on the NU, since I responded to a post of his requesting info many months ago. You guys can probably both cast circles around me, so I'd gain from the opportunity to watch.

Others on this forum, such as Rob Allen or GordonF, have much greater knowledge of the NU than I, but I love the Umpqua greatly and would enjoy sharing it with someone who respects the resource as you have shown with your many thoughtful posts.

Coming from the GL area, you probably haven't had much opportunity to successfully fish dries and wakers, and I've had reasonable success fishing on top the last couple years, so that might be something to look forward to depending on the time of year you visit.

--Bill Koran
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Old 12-17-2002, 03:32 PM
SparseHairHackl SparseHairHackl is offline
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Fred,

Following this thread reminded me of your earlier inquires re the N. Umpqua. I don't know how much you've fished the river since then, but I'm particularly curious if you made it up Steamboat Creek to the FishWatch site, and visited with Lee Spencer at the Bend Pool?

Visiting with Lee and seeing the steelhead in the pool is a mustn't-miss experience for visitors, fishers and non-fishers alike, IMO.

--Bill Koran
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