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Old 10-22-2002, 08:26 PM
mikez mikez is offline
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spin vs fly, an essay

I originally typed this as a reply to a question in another thread. Then I decided to give it its own thread and see what response I'd get. Hopefully this won't offend anybody too much, and don't worry, I'm not about to start posting results of leadhead jigging trips to the Canal. I'd go to that Other Board for that!:hehe:

Having started flyfishing [freshwater] as a kid many years ago, and having started saltwater flyfishing about a dozen years ago, I've found myself evolving through stages of intensity. When I first got hooked on saltwater flyfishing I was a stuburn purist and forced myself to stick to the long rod at all cost. As I wasn't willing to give up fishing the rocky surf [my first salty love], that meant I pushed the the method to the limits of practicality and beyond. I got my butt kicked by big waves trying to get close enough to cast. I wrecked expensive lines and lost big fish in the boulders. I endured major frustration and wicked sore arms trying to cast into the teeth of the Sweet Striper Wind [called SSW in marine forcasts], and I missed out on many fish I just couldn't reach. Eventually I found I was avoiding those tough conditions in order to accomadate the flyrod. That was fun while it lasted, and I caught tons of schoolies, but I began to miss the crashing surf, the slippery rocks, the foaming whitewater and all those big stripers I wasn't catching anymore. I started to realize the snobbery of purist flyfishing was depriving me of some of the fun that first hooked me on the inshore salt. I started to regress back toward my spin rod. At first with a sense of guilt when I thought nobody was looking. Then I started to realize I actually just plain enjoyed swimming a plug through the suds. There was nothing morally superior about flyfishing so why should I feel compelled to denounce all other forms? Especially if I enjoyed them and very especially if they were the most effective techique for a given situation. What finally convinced me was observing the snobby, superior attitudes of many of the newbie flyfishermen I encountered. This was most pronounced when I was in my surf caster role dealing with flyfishermen who didn't know I flyfished. I would suggest to some fisherman that big bass were being caught at Watch Hill or Hazard Ave or Beavertail and they would act as if I suggested a price for their sister! "You can't FLYFISH those spots!" Besides, the worm hatch was on at Quonnie and everybody who was anybody was there having "fun" failing to hook 18 inch schoolies! These were guys who had flyfished 1/10th as long as me and caught 1/50th as many fish, yet treated me as a second class citizen because they happened to have $10,000 of disposable income to buy their success from Orvis rather than earn it. At that point I decided I'll fish how I want, where I want, when I want [within all legal and ethical limits of course] and to hell with anybody who doesn't like it.

Don't get me wrong, I still love flyfishing and I prefer this forum over the other less "pure" ones. I still try to flyfish when ever possible. You can't beat it for albies and I have a few spots where I have reasonable hope of consistently hooking big bass on a fly. But I don't have much time to fish anymore. The days of fishing every weekend from April to November are gone for good. I have to maximize the enjoyment of what little time I do get. Catching little schoolies just doesn't do it for me anymore. Standing on a rock watching everyone else hook fish I can't reach doesn't maximize my enjoyment either. So sometimes I carry a spin rod and I'm OK with that. If any of you have a problem with that, you can still be my friend. Just don't expect me to join you for the worm hatch at Quonnie when 30 lb bass are crashing shad in the foam of 6 foot surf and a 25 knot south wind!
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Old 10-22-2002, 11:27 PM
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striblue striblue is offline
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Mike ,those are good points...I for one started with the spinning rod but learned flyfishing early in Quebec with my father... we would do both.... Years ago when my kids were little and stripers were very rare for some reason I would surf cast with fishfinders and chunk markerel at Hardings beach. My son caught his first blue fish there on a 10 foot Penn slammer rod and Penn spinning reel. Then back to flyfishing... there were days at Morris Island when the local guys that were frends were catching more fish than me since I could not reach them.... then as my territory expanded I started to catch more fish on the fly than they did....sometimes not, sometimes yes...but it was the process that effected me...there was always the need to improve...improve my cast, improve my strip... With the spinning rod I never had to do anything but cast and retreve... my plugs were limited as well, most would either sink right to the bottom or stay on top.... there was no drift, etc. The thing is the tug you get with a fish on is the same...if it's light tackle... as the flyrod...so I think it was not just catching the fish that effected me ,,,but the process that possessed me... How could I be better. Now that I tye my flies it is even worse an obsession.... But alot of guys still use the spinner, Bob Pink, Roop to name two. There was a big difference for me ,on a boat , at the Monomoy rips when using a fly rod because I remember fishing in the same location with a big stick and a rubber surgical tube with a hook ... it was just to easy to bring that 30 inch fish in. So, those are my reasons and I do not consider myself as an elitist... after all what would my father think of me if he was alive. Everytime I see a spin caster or bait chunker...I think of him. He still grabbed the fly rod, but he loved "the Process" more than catching the fish... this is what I think he thought anyway.
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Old 10-23-2002, 05:01 AM
FishHawk FishHawk is offline
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Here is what I think leads to problems about flyfishing vs. spinning. It is the attitude that because one is a flyfisherman the he must be an elitist. While a spin fisherman is your hard working average guy. On and on it goes. People slam a guy just because he wants to have an expensive rod or reel.
That being said, what I like about this board is that its all about flyfishing. I like it that way, some people would say that I'm an elitist for wanting it this way.
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Old 10-23-2002, 07:13 AM
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juro juro is offline
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If I could have a quote for meeself it might be something like...

"I flyfish because I crave satisfaction, and that often includes catching fish. But what I'm really after is mastery of the art; the fish are just yardsticks for measuring my progress." - Juro Mukai 2002

You're right Mike, there is a right time and place for everything. You should've seen the Penn reels and broom sticks I used for pacific halibut from 40, 70, 100 even seen some 200 pounds in British Columbia waters for working those 24 ounce leadheads and norway jigs 40 fathoms plus on the offshore banks. No fly gear for barn door action, but the 10-15 pound coho slashing around on top were a blast and it would be a shame to use anything but flygear. But when they get down 40-60 feet I've clipped a trolling weight onto the leader to prove they are down there, and they were. But once we docked the boat and headed to the river with our Spey rods and floating lines, elk bugling in the valley and a big hatch coming off the river, I was in my element. Earlier in the day we measured success in pounds, yet the satisfaction from the evening fishing could not be measured.

Good fishermen are good fishermen regardless of what kind of gear they are holding in their hands. And the most important thing is to have fun. And you sir are a good fisherman, that I know!

This is really up to the beholder as well, when chasing stripers I fish for satisfaction (per my quote), not fish and for me it comes in the form of a flyrod. Where I fish, how I fish, I do not necessarily get smaller fish using the fly than I would by other means putting all modesty aside. In fact I get some real pigs on the fly on the sandy structures of Cape Cod from the bay to the backside to the flats to the southside inlets, there are many places where a good man and a flyrod can catch his limit of satisfaction.

As far as the site goes - of course I jest when I post those remarks, but yes it is a true flyfishing site.
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Old 10-23-2002, 07:16 AM
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jfbasser jfbasser is offline
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and casting

I always have a casting, spinning, and fly rod in my truck. Get to fish three spots a day that way!
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Old 10-23-2002, 08:40 AM
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Lefty Lefty is offline
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Great words from good people. I agree with what most people have said. My angle is that while Mike was having a great time with his surf stick in the foam, I was chasing teeny weeny trouts around on a five wt. I never developed the big surf tricks. I'm always astounded by the surf casting culture down in Rhodey. It's a cool tradition of old timers. I have a spin rod at the ready but just never get around to using it. Loan it to my son mostly. I just love the fly gear too much.
It should be mentioned that the image problem with "spin" gear is that the bait crowd can be mixed in with that bunch depending on whos definition you're using. Some of them are the guys in lawn chairs who gut hook schoolies all day. They don't know better, they are also bound by tradition. I personally differentiate between a bait guy and someone who has mastered artificials on the spin rod.(except for Sluggos chuckers, those people are total wimps :hehe: ).
To each his own, just don't kill schoolies, mind the conservation.

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Old 10-23-2002, 08:50 AM
BigDave BigDave is offline
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Have to agree with your philosophy here. I will stick with the flyrod unless it's absolutely absurd conditions. There's something more gratifying about that schoolie when you persevere the conditions and fool him on a fly of your own creation.

On the other hand I will not go home skunked because I feel too good to pick up a spinning rod

For freshwater bass fishing I prefer fishing a spinning rod. Just think it's more fun and practical in the slop.

This is fishing - who cares what other people think? The fish don't!

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Old 10-23-2002, 09:34 AM
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...Hi, my name is Pete, and I'm a spin-aholic......

There it is...in the closet...a spinning outfit, and more down stairs in the bunker.
I grew up on the South Shore of Long Island and plugged my way through adolescence...
While my pals were hangin' out where-ever chasin' tail, I was hangin' out on the getties around Atlantic Beach chasin' keepers.
That was way back in the 1900's when cars had big engines and fins to match and ran on leaded gas...the Cold war!
Mike I hear ya!
But I do get annoyed when I 'round the corner at Race Point (or some other dandy spot) and see some guy with 5 rods stuck in the sand while he sits back at his makeshift camp doing everything but actually "fishing"...
Gut hooked fish dragged up to the dry sand make me ANGRY!
When he leaves his bait wrappers and crap behind, my wheaties really get toasted...
Sure I look down my nose at those sub-humanoid-quazi-"sportsmen"...and after I get done picking up their trash after they leave, I'll catch and realease and leave only footprints and tyre tracks. Am I "better" than them...I'd like to think so.
Wire line jigging for "sport" is another contradiction of terms. It produces large fish but leaves me (and the fish) gasping for air.
I do have a problem when some commercial guy kills 40 breeders a day so they can make payments on their boat and motor. Reminds me of the "endless" herds of buffalo...What ever happened to them anyway?! Are we doomed to relive history AGAIN (until we get it right)?!

I gravitated to fly fishing because it felt so good. The challenges and rewards go on all the way to the horizon (and beyond). I love the feel of a ballanced outfit, a snappy cast, and the "take"... but, I'm not above and beyond going to the closet for some nostalgia and a piece of gear that brings me back to the getties I scampered across toooo many years ago, before I got bit by the fly!

Last edited by Penguin; 10-23-2002 at 09:43 AM.
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Old 10-23-2002, 11:29 AM
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Striper Striper is offline
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I really love this site! You guy's are my kind of people for sure.
I Agree with all that has been said. I started fishing back in the early 70's with my father. There was guy in the neighborhood who fished all the time and my father got to know him. He took my father to Town Fair Tire (that's right Town Fair Tire) and rigged him up with a whole assortment of surf fishing gear. 10 ft. Garcia Rod, Garcia 306 Reel I think, and a tackle box with all of the trimmings. We started by just going down to the local beach at daybreak and waiting for the blues to make their morning foray into the vast schools of baby bunker. I used my fathers hand me down freshwater bait casting rod and reel, spooled with dacron line. Couldn't cast very far with it but didn't need to as the fish would be right at your feet. I remember vividly my fathers first bluefish and how excited he was, a couple of days later I was annointed into the club by hooking my first 12 lb. bluefish and landing him by myself after the reel I was using completely exploded I had to just drag the fish in up the beach. After I landed him I ran down the beach with that fish fish screaming and yelling the whole way to show my Dad what I had just caught. Man was I excited!! I spent the next 30 years buying various gear when I could afford it and fishing mostly freshwater for largemouth bass, but there were many trips to the salt with Dad and many days in my memory with just Dad and I catching fish and being together. That is really what fishing is all about I think, being outside by the water or in it, having good company or by yourself. Catching fish is usually just a bonus for me, if I catch fish great but it is not the main goal. I love to be out on the water it gives me time to think and ponder things and it relieves stress like no drug I have ever heard of.

I took up flyfishing about 6-7 years ago. I did this mainly because my 2 best friends had bought flyrods and they were having a ball using them. I decided that I too wanted a new challenge and wanted to add to my already large repertoire of fishing techniques. Flyfishing to me is just an extension of what I like to do FISH! It is a challenge and it gives me great satisfaction to catch fish on something I made and thought of. It is difficult to flyfish, casting is not easy and takes alot of dedicated practice and time. Once you have become proficient at casting then you have to learn many other things to be succesful at fooling and catching fish on the long wand. It definitely has it's place in the surf but it isn't a replacement for my other gear just a supplement to it. There are times when the flyrod just isn't an option and other times when it is the only thing that will keep you from a skunk. I would much rather use the flyrod when it is all said and done and do most of the time but I will not stop using my other gear (Spin and Conventional) it has it's place as well and there are times I am happy I have it with me. So to the elitist crowd I say good for you, I will use what I have to to catch fish and enjoy myself. While they are complaining about this and that I will be unhooking fish and enjoying myself. To each his own, there is nothing wrong with their mindset and nothing wrong with mine it is just a personal preference and nothing more. So Mike my point is keep doing what you are doing and don't sweat the small stuff if they want to give you grief about what you are doing just turn the other cheek and moon them. Success is not measured by the size or quantity of the fish you catch or the means by which you catch them. Success is measured in many other ways and those are not some of the ways I measure success!!!!!!!!!

Mike M.
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Old 10-23-2002, 12:30 PM
JimW JimW is offline
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Bait, spin, Conventional, Fly, Dropper line. I donít care how anyone fishes. If they can get a break from the hectic life most of us lead, good for them. If they are injuring fish, bait gut-hooking, plugging-too many hooks, fly-playing the fish too long; then help them out, pass on some tips. If they thank you and modify their technique great if not oh well at least youíve said your piece.
When I first started fly fishing, only a few years ago it was because I blew out my back and thought it did not require as much low back strain as the methods I used prior to the injury. I started out chunking Ė and Iíve gut hooked my share of fish doing the beach chair fishing with the family, but Iím no litter bug. Does that make me a bad fisherman, you decide. Iíd say I was ignorant to the use of circle hooks and proper hook setting. After beach fishing for a few years I became intrigued with the canal, employing the same 4oz sinker and a hunk of meat approach it didnít work well at all. Luckily someone showed me the ropes and I can tell you drifting an unweighted eel or chunk of mackerel in an eddy on the east end can be just as much of a challenge and has many similarities to drifting a fly in the current but it lacks mobility and doesnít smell very good ;-).
I moved on from bait to mostly plugging and used a bike to chase the birds and cover the length of the canal, I learned a lot about the currents and structure. With my abu 7000 and a good stick I got quite good at casting and could hit the middle of the canal with some wood. I had a great time fishing this method and caught some big fish. Then the back went and so did the big stick fishing.
Iíve gone over to the fly for 99% of my fishing. The exceptions being hooking some fish on light spin gear for my daughter and at the last boneclave when I broke my fly rod and Greggo let me use his jig setup Ė and it was fun. Oh yeah and the BBT. I guess Iíve modified my fishing to accommodate the flyrod but Iíve stuck with it when conditions were bad and become better at fly fishing because of it. The kayak is definitely extending my range and changing the way I use a fly.
When I first started fly fishing I looked on bait fishermen and even pluggers as inferior, that was quite hypocritical of me and was driven more by my love of the new method than any dislike of the method others were using. I slowly realized my hipocracy and my current mindset is one of acceptance. I hope others can accept my obsession with my chosen method and not look at me as a snob. Not to see that my 99% flyfishing will never change but I donít see it happening at present, well maybe 100% flyfishing . It is possible that it will become a more even blend of methods such that I use the right tools for the given situation but right now Iím having too much fun learning to flyfish in all conditions.

That said, I met Mike at the Rhody II clave and very much enjoyed the striper he caught that morning on OTFF gear. Mike you can fish next to me anytime, any method, but please make sure the bait is fresh.

Tolerance and enlightenment is where itís at for me. Too little time on the water to be bickering about turf and methods.

Iím looking at a boat purchase in the near future. Does anyone know how many umbrella rigs you can pull behind a 20ír with a 130hp engine?
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Old 10-23-2002, 12:47 PM
Caster Caster is offline
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This thread reminds me of a quote I once read or heardÖ

ďSpin fisherman drink beer, drive pick-ups and enjoy loud, large breasted women. Fly fishermen, drink Chardonnay, drive BMWís and donít think about women at all. The latter is probably due to the fact that they stand waist deep in cold water all day.Ē

All kidding aside, we need to be aware of some issues here that transcend the spin vs. fly debate. These include stereotyping, pretentious snobbery, etc. If you look around youíll see that these same issues are evident in similar debates such as NASCAR vs. Formula 1 and quarter horse vs. thoroughbred racing. The question is not whether to use a spinning rod or fly rod, but how best to deal with an individual that comes across as a flyfishing snob or a stereotyping surfcaster. The answer is simple, end your conversation politely and move on. Period. Letís face it guys, the world is full of different personalitiesÖ unfortunately,as with other sports, the sport of fishing is not exempt from people who lack the insight of what it is really all about. How you go about doing it is not important. What is important is the camaraderie between us, enjoyment and preservation of the places our sport takes us, and the passing down of this enjoyment to our children.

Personally, I have been fishing since I was old enough to hold a fishing pole. I started flyfishing at the age of twelve and picked up saltwater flyfishing about 17 years ago. Using a flyrod is my preference and I have yet to use one of my surf rods this year. This is a conscientious choice on my part aimed at making me think more about weather, wind, tides, bait etc. Not that you shouldnít think about these things when using a surf rod, but the limitations of the fly rod does force me to think more about these basics. Any success I have using my flyrod in SW is due to the years I spent learning these fundamentals with a surf rod in hand.

I agree 100%with Juroís quote about flyfishing. It is the perfect combination of art, science and whimsy. I enjoy the creative side of flytying and the physics of casting. But if given the opportunity to walk one of the Cape's outer beaches, I more than likely would reach for the surf rod and Buck's bag full of plugs.
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Old 10-23-2002, 01:17 PM
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Adrian Adrian is offline
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Whoever said "its all about attitude" said it right.

Reading JimW and Greg (Hawkeye) post reminded me of our FFF participation at the MSBA (Mass. Striped Bass Association) show earlier this year. Not too many fly fishermen there I can tell ya! I for one was a bit apprehensive going into this - (visions of solo Yankee fan in pinstripes at Fenway on a Friday night playoff game sprang to mind).

What a great time we had! Met some terrific guys who were genuinely interested in what we were up to and some real "characters!"

I think its down to the fact that, at the end of the day, most of us care a lot about the sport we love - irrespective of the method we use. Conservation was as hot a topic at the MSBA show as anywhere else. I choose to fly fish most of the time. I even use a floating line until conditions force me to change! :eyecrazy:

I own a spinning rod too but it doesn't get much airtime these days.

I still find it interesting to watch other fishermen using other methods. Spin fishermen, live liners or bait chunkers. etc. especially those who really know their craft. There's always something new to learn.
When sight fishing, look over your shoulder from time to time, you never know who's behind you
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Old 10-23-2002, 04:11 PM
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juro juro is offline
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Originally posted by Caster
This thread reminds me of a quote I once read or heardÖ

ďSpin fisherman drink beer, drive pick-ups and enjoy loud, large breasted women. Fly fishermen, drink Chardonnay, drive BMWís and donít think about women at all. The latter is probably due to the fact that they stand waist deep in cold water all day.Ē

Caster, LOL!

BTW - Although I am definitely a flyfisherman, I drink beer, I drive a pick-up and enjoy loud, large... you know where I am goin' with dat!

Better go wade...

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Old 10-23-2002, 05:34 PM
Doc Duprey Doc Duprey is offline
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spin vs fly


I'm with you...except that I never owned a pickup truck.

My fly fishing, boat-driving wife wants one, though.


Some great stories, and a lot of positive attitude here. This group never ceases to amaze and enlighten me.

Now, could someone pass the chardonnay, please.

Steve "Doc" Duprey
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Old 10-23-2002, 05:50 PM
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Smcdermott Smcdermott is offline
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Great perpesctives...

Mike and all...

This thread has given me some great perspectives. I grew up fishing a few times a year off the Jetty at Wynchmere harbor in Harwichport and all I ever knew was either snagging menhaden when I was younger or being forced to buy bait as the years went on and the bunker away. As I continue to learn about fish behavior and the art of fly fishing I have also gained alot of respect for the "educated" spin fisherman. Although watching a couple yahoos with sluggos keeping 22" schoolies at Watch Hill last weekend was painfull. I tried to educate them to the laws and the need for conservation but I think the beer that was now emptied from the cans laying next to the stripers in the rocks was affecting their understanding. I think I am going to give the spin rod a chance either this fall or next. It will probably be a only in extreme cases thing but I also think it will help me further understand the ways of the fish.

Tight lines,
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