etiquette? - Fly Fishing Forum
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  #1  
Old 10-17-2002, 01:37 AM
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Dana Dana is offline
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Angry etiquette?

is it just me or are there more and more fly anglers cutting in below other fly anglers on the river these days? I thought that one was #2 in the rule book, right below (haha) "10 o'clock and 2 o'clock." Worst part is that they walk in and hesitate, so you know they know it's a no-no.
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  #2  
Old 10-17-2002, 03:31 AM
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Willie Gunn Willie Gunn is offline
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Use a big fly

I was brought up on the Inverness Angling Association water and you would not try that trick more than once, even as an innocent ? youth.

Now if people come in below me I put on the biggest fly I have and cast as far as I can. People get very nervous as a 3" tube with a huge treble whizzes past their waders. Subtle Scottish approach.

Malcolm
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  #3  
Old 10-17-2002, 02:14 PM
andre andre is offline
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Dana,

I think this is becoming the rule rather than the exception. These days as people have less time and are traveling farther they are justify many practices. I find this particularly frustrating on long runs. I believe these long runs create a dilemma they know they should not cut in but, the upstream angler may be 200yrd away. How much space is too much? I play by the old rules ask and gauge situations as to what I would think.

andre

Last edited by andre; 10-17-2002 at 04:13 PM.
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  #4  
Old 10-17-2002, 03:04 PM
Leland Miyawaki Leland Miyawaki is offline
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Dana,

The other day, Brian and I were fishing when two flyfishers in a driftboat dropped down into the run we were in, anchored across from us and began casting into our water. We could tell they knew what they were doing because they kept glancing over at us, not quiltily but with a screw you look.

After they left, we both agreed that: gearchuckers lowhole and don't know or simply don't give a damn (cause they never look over at you); newbie flyfishers (you can tell by their casting strokes and fishing technique) usually don't know and additionally, their numbers are too few to sweat; but experienced flyfishers DO know what they're doing and REALLY don't care.

I'm afraid it's another sign of the times competitive, aggressive, win at all costs, me first, behavior.

Leland.
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  #5  
Old 10-17-2002, 03:30 PM
watersprite watersprite is offline
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Gee, any surprise here...?

When myself and a few others wished to establish an ongoing dialog on Flyfishing Ethics (of which etiquette is a part) we were summarily shouted down. Does it now hit too close to home here? Why let's pretend it doesn't exist and go our merry way but, me first in the run, dude.

You have all spoken clearly that it's not important enough to bother with - So stop complaining!

ws
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  #6  
Old 10-17-2002, 03:42 PM
KerryS KerryS is offline
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I just don't see it. I don't run into that many rude fisherman. Yeah sure once in a great while and usually if I mention that I think they are crowding me and they apologize.

Example: Sunday I was fishing the lower Skagit for silvers. Two guys were floating down river towards me casting into shore. First off one guy got on the sticks and moved the boat out so as not to float over my water. Pretty cool. I start up a conversation about "how's the fishing?". Normal lies. Their reply was no fish. My reply was the lie "Just got here". (jetsled should like that) Then one of them casts to within 5 feet of me. I simply say "Hey buddy, lots of river here". He apologizes and that was that. End of problem.
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  #7  
Old 10-17-2002, 04:21 PM
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Doublespey Doublespey is offline
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Yes, there are!

Hey Dana,

Yes, there is a lot more of it happening. IMHO frustration from lack of fish in the rivers, cancelled seasons, crowded runs, etc. have combined to lead to this.

Not pretty, and something I think worthy of discussing to determine how to deal with it best.

As with poachers, I'm not an advocate of the "Go down there and kick some a$$" approach. Too many guns/crazies running around these days. But there are in-between solutions (like Kerry's) that work some of the time.

What's worked for the rest of you? Stay and fish thru? Find new water? Ask him if he's "new" and hasn't learned about etiquitte yet?

I usually watch to see if they're fishing the water effectively. If so, I fish down to where they started and head off to find new water. If not, I'll wait and fish thru. Don't usually offer suggestions because everyone I ever talked to knew what they were doing and just didn't care.

Don't know about you, but it's not worth it to me to get in a fight over a fishing spot.

Peace,

DS
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  #8  
Old 10-17-2002, 04:33 PM
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sean sean is offline
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WS,

I do not think this is a fly fishing ethics problem at all. Personal ethics , yes. That is something none of us can fix. In most of the cases all these guys know what they are not supposed to be low holing anyone but they make a personal choice to not do the right thing.

In my view there is nothing that can be done about this. What are we going to go after thier parents for not bringing them up correctly? Aint going to happen.

My approach is to tell myself that these guys are most likley not very good fishermen and the fish are safe until I follow them through

-sean
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  #9  
Old 10-17-2002, 04:46 PM
skyrise skyrise is offline
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When it comes to gear guys there is no rule about starting down behind the first guy. Its understood, and has been for a long time that you got in line anywhere there was an opening. So dont expect them to follow the fly rules around fly fishers. And when it comes to boats even the old gear rules about following down river the boat ahead of you has now been replace with lets race to the next best hole, first to get there gets the fish (sad).
I do agree with following behind first guy in the drift when it comes to the fly gear.
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  #10  
Old 10-17-2002, 05:42 PM
watersprite watersprite is offline
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Sean,

It's apples and oranges yielding up a tainted fruit salad. It is personal ethics AND fly angler ethics. They are inseparable. Just take the Enron fiasco as an example - Is it only personal ethics? Or is it just business ethics? I say it is both.

And to shrug it off with, "That is nothing we can fix", is a total cop out. Doing and saying nothing will effect nothing but, speaking up at least puts the offending party on notice that his peers DO hold him accountable for such transgression(s). If enough speak up the average offender will change if only to find some peace. Sticking ones head in the sand simply states that you don't care enough. Silence and inaction simply condones such behavior.

ws

Last edited by watersprite; 10-17-2002 at 06:17 PM.
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  #11  
Old 10-17-2002, 06:26 PM
fredaevans fredaevans is offline
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Spring "combat fishing" on the Rogue.

Interesting enough (I use a spey rod 99% of the time) most gear guys will give someone with a spey rod all the room in the world or we both (frequently they're right across the river from you) just pay attention and time our casts. I've got a fly line working, he's got 2-3 oz of lead.

Very rare that we will get our lines crossed as, with the spey rod, you can make some pretty radical adjustments to keep out of 'his' way. Most of the gear guys watch you work for a few minutes and get in sink with the casting flow (being able to see the fly line really helps here). Looks like we're going to get at cross purposes I just throw a huge upstream mend and stop the line or give a sharp upstream tug on the rod (same effect as it pops my line up and out of the way). So it blows my drift, big deal.

In the very few times I've crossed with a bankie (with one huge exception: a guide who has a reputation that would even make Satan blush) they're the ones who usually appoligize. Tell guy no sweat, I can control my line and I know he can't, so no big deal. Top this off with a huge smile and we all go back to business.

fae

The 'guide' mentioned above actually called the OSP and reported I was 'snagging fish.' When I walked out and the TWO officers saw the fly rods (and I knew one of them quite well from the river) they were both very unhappy campers to be put on a wild goose chase. Understand they had a "heart to heart" chat with the fellow.
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  #12  
Old 10-17-2002, 06:49 PM
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Watersprite I'm in total disagreement

with you on confronting these ignorant S.O.B's. The unethical fisherfolks we are discussing here already know they are exhibting rude behavior and no amount of preaching will change their practices. IMO Sean has it right. These people aren't worth the time it takes to tell them they are out of line. They already know that and do not care. Again IMO, to talk about ethics on this board is like Eddie said in the thread P M started on this same subject above. It is preaching to the choir.
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  #13  
Old 10-17-2002, 07:54 PM
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juro juro is offline
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It's most certain that what we don't do or say is as meaningful as what we do. In my opinion, confrontation does not improve etiquette and moving to a new pool is just as reasonable an option as any other. Another option is to continue through the pool and hit a fish under his nose.

50% of the ettiquette equation is resolved when we ourselves arrive at an occupied pool. Maybe we can solve that half first and go from there.

See you on the river, my friends and fellow anglers!
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  #14  
Old 10-17-2002, 08:34 PM
Scott K Scott K is offline
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Maybe start carrying copies or pamphlets containing information on Steelheading etiquette. When someone cuts below you, calmly walk below to them and hand them this little pamphlet or piece of paper and then walk back up river and resume fishing.

Some people might do it out of ignorance, they just don't know Steelheading etiquette. Particularly on the rivers where all the really hardcore steelheaders go, where this etiquette is quite important, where as on other rivers, there is no etiquette.

You know, doing something like I mentioned, might act in sort of a "peer pressure" type of way. They get this pamphlet handed to them, you walk away, they read it, and figure if this pamphlet is handed to them, they will feel as if every other Steelheader is following this policy, and they will be under close observation with every place they choose to start, as if every other Steelheader is watching them to see if they follow the etiquette.

Personally, I would be pretty pissed off if I'm covering the water and someone steps below me, but aside from the above mentioned Idea, I have confidence in myself, and I won't let thinking that maybe this guy will steal what is "my fish" get in the way of continuing on. Now if this guy wants to stand there all day and hog that spot while I fish down, he probably won't figure it out. This is the time when some type of etiquette talk is neccessary, or handing him/her a slip/pamphlet, which details etiquette. Or maybe posting laminated posters contiaining etquiette and putting them in places and put "Attention Steelheaders" in big bold letters to get their attention while they walk to their fishing spot.

Just an idea. A bit of effort, but might work on some of the more hardcore rivers where etiquette IMHO is neccessary.
Scott

Last edited by Scott K; 10-17-2002 at 08:39 PM.
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  #15  
Old 10-17-2002, 09:27 PM
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Thats a good idea. Will print perhaps ten bullet points up and put on the cars at the access points. Thats a start who knows they may at least think before they low hole you or camp on a pool or run. Oh yes ensure you give them to the DBs and Jet Sledders going by also.

Why can't our state DNRs do something ? Post signs at the major access points and print some ethics on the licenses perhaps.

Just some ideas.
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