Whiting Spey Hackle - Fly Fishing Forum
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  #1  
Old 10-12-2002, 12:12 AM
Stu Farnham Stu Farnham is offline
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Whiting Spey Hackle

Anyone know where to get it?

Stu
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  #2  
Old 10-12-2002, 12:26 AM
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NrthFrk16 NrthFrk16 is offline
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Stu-
It is very hard to find at the moment, as everyone as pretty much bought up the first generation.

Stay tuned though as this January, Tom will be releasing his second generation which will contain feathers that are longer and a tad more 'body' then the first run.

I've got a few skins now and absolutely love it!!
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Old 10-12-2002, 12:39 AM
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If I remember right

I never got my samples of that spey hackle Ryan. Hint hint. LOL

How'd the SI's work for you anyways??? Wish I had more time to make better one's for you.
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Old 10-12-2002, 06:50 AM
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Ryan -

I tried the first gen and liked it, but if I could say anything could be improved, it would have been that I like the barbules to be more substantial. Sounds like I was not the only one!

Can't wait to see the next batch.
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Old 10-12-2002, 08:13 AM
Stu Farnham Stu Farnham is offline
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Thanks

Thanks guys.

Speybum gave me a few feathers, and I'd agree with the comments above: could be longer and a bit more substantial.

Stu
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Old 10-12-2002, 10:08 PM
flytyer flytyer is offline
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Juro,

The lack of thickness in the feather barbules is why I don't like the Whiting Spey Hackle. Schappen or Coche feathers are much better because they have more barbule thickness. In fact, if you read Knox's 'AUTUMN ON THE SPEY', you will find out that most spey flies of old were tied with Coche feathers. Yes, a few were tied with Heron, but the vast majority were tied with Coche feather. Blue Earned Pheasant is also a superb subsitute for Heron when you feel the need for a feather that is similar to Heron.

If Whiting Farms can increase the barbule thickness by a factor of 4, their Spey Hackle will be a very good substitute indeed. I do wonder if that is possible though.

Also, if you really want to use rooster neck feathers, which is what Whiting's Spey Hackle is that is long enough to tie a spey fly, all you need to do is use the biggest feathers on a Chinese Hackle Neck, or use the Whiting American Hackle necks bigest feathers. Yes, the feather stem in larger diameter than the Whiting Spey Hackle, but the barbules are the same.
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Old 10-13-2002, 12:04 AM
roballen roballen is offline
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ain't no 2 ways about it.. There is no such thing as heron substitute. I cannot tie well enough to do respect to a heron feather so I don't fish spey's much. Not trying to say bad things about whiting but heron is the only thing that REALLY works.. Woo Hoo and I found a feather today.. Hey none of you guys work in law enforcment do you?
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Old 10-13-2002, 09:21 AM
Moonlight Moonlight is offline
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Interesting point....

I have lots of Heron feathers adorning flies and fly plates in boxes in my fishing vest and hanging on the walls of my home. Is it against the law to posses these?
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Old 10-13-2002, 10:38 AM
roballen roballen is offline
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moonlight no more illegal than say polar bear.
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Old 10-13-2002, 10:44 AM
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I am no expert but the word on the river is that if the source can't be proven to be beyond the jurisdiction of the federal law then you could be in trouble for it.

As far as schlappen, my own personal preference is for less sticky webbed Spey hackle, like the blue-eared pheasants or even the burnt goose for larger flies because they don't mat together like schlappen. This is purely a matter of preference I'm sure because I've caught fish on schlappen hackled flies and they don't seem to mind.

For smaller Spey flies, like low water #6 or #8, I love using the dyed mallard with one side stripped. The other hackles are too long for this use (once again, preference).

Tying some up tonight as a matter of fact!
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Old 10-13-2002, 11:05 AM
Moonlight Moonlight is offline
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Legal Polar Bear....

A fellow in Sitka who runs a tourist trap is a dealer in "Native Art" and as such he does from time to time come in to possesion of various Seals, Otters, and Bears.
The exemption under the Endangered species act for Native consumption and sales is I gather fairly fluid (and loose). He claims as a Native he may purchase from other Natives who have harvested animals and made minor art work addittions to the skin ie. an ink or charcol drawing on the tanned hide side. Then he is able to sell them through his retail store to non natives for a substantial profit. Seems like most of the folks I see shopping are more interested in Baleen and Ivory but it appears to be a thriving bussiness and there are at least a dozen federal and state wildlife cops in town that no all about this . My guess is there is away to get around having a few "Found Heron" feathers in ones possesion.
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Old 10-13-2002, 11:08 AM
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There is a vendor who comes as far as the Boston fly show to sell polar bear decorations and artifacts. Now why would they be selling wall hangings and desk ornaments made of PB at a fly show? Why ask why?
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Old 10-13-2002, 02:09 PM
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All I know is that if they are realy worried about me picking up a heron feather off the bank of the river and sending it to a friend of mine to be made into a work of art well then they can come arrest me. frankly I don't think it would be worth their effort
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Old 10-13-2002, 05:21 PM
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Legal exotics!!!!

There is legal polar bear out there. You have to have proof that it was killed pre 1974 I do believe (not exactly sure on the date). I found a guy who was altering an old polar bear rug documented that it was shot in the early 1900's. He gave me some good sized pieces off of that. He may give me more, depending on how the rug comes out. I made sure off get go this was an older rug. Saw pictures of the rug in an old black and white photo circa 1930's in his grandfathers den. So I know it was legit. I also know they sell legal seal fur dubbing too. But it has to be either harvested by a Native I do believe.

Now, with heron, I do believe it depends on the heron. There is a guy on ebay actually selling it. I know there is a person who monitors ebay for such illegal/embargoed stuff. He has the stuff on all the time. Not sure what type of heron though. I'm not sure on logistics, but I had heard if you have feathers from either a legal source (natives who are allowed to harvest) or certain millinaries you're ok with proper documentation.

BTW Juro, YES, if I get any of the long fur from the polar bear, you'll be the first I give it to. I don't tie up long streamers/saltwater flies, so would have no use for it unless I chopped it down. Which would be a waste.
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Old 10-14-2002, 10:57 PM
flytyer flytyer is offline
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Steelheader69,

You are correct about the need for documentation to show that it was from a legal source. Also, if the Polar Bear sold by a Native American did not have the drawing or other art on it, it would not be legal for him to sell it except to another Native American.

Note, there are legal Heron feathers available from England. You must have a CITIES permit to bring them into the U.S. or Canada legally. Once in either contry, you must be able to document that they were purchased from someone who had the CITIES permit to bring them in and documentation from his source that they were legally obtained by the importer.

You are also correct about 1974 being the magic year. This was when the CITIES convention and the endangered species act went into effect. Tricky Dick was good for something. There are sops and individual out there who sell illegal Polar Bear, which is supposedly from a rug that was made by a pre 1974 bear. Amazing how many years a hide will produce 100's of square inches/year.

The rule is, if they can't produce the documentation, don't buy because you can get arrested for having it, including in an already tied fly.
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