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Pacific Northwest Sea Run Forum No such thing as rainbow trout, only landlocked steelhead

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Old 10-09-2002, 12:15 AM
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Now I Remember...

...why I dont trout fish.

Two days spent walking the banks of a local river that I know has a decent population of resident wild rainbows that do push 18"...two days worth of fruitless casting except for the odd piddler that was not large enough to impale istelf on my october caddis imitation.

It seems that in my case...hours/fish is alot less when pursuing steelhead then trout. Go figure!!

Next week...it is time to stop playing around with them 'pre-migrants' and pursue real gamefish.
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  #2  
Old 10-09-2002, 02:52 AM
Scott K Scott K is offline
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Think about it for a minute here

Considering Steelhead are a Trout, we really do spend more time trout fishing than we think.
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Old 10-09-2002, 08:16 AM
John Desjardins John Desjardins is offline
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Ryan. it sounds like you experienced why its called fishing rather than catching.
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Old 10-09-2002, 08:43 AM
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Ryan,

I encountered the same thing this summer fly fishing for trout on several South Dakota spring creeks, lots of selective and educated bit trout their that would not touch my flies.

I guess I know consider steelhead an easier fly fishing target, and will continue to pursue them. I can usually get at least one - 2 touches each trip from those buggers unlike these educated stream trout.

I am now thinking that fly fishing for regular stream trout is more of an angler challenge than steelhead. If the steelhead are in the river section I am fishing I feel I can get them to take a fly, I cannot say that for educated stream trout though, even with my 43 years of trout fly fishing experience. This is of course compounded when you are on a new river and donot know the hatches or river as I was this summer in SD. "Such is the sum of the challenge" as R. H. Brown stated wonderfully in his writings on steelhead. Thats why we keep coming back for the challenge, if we caught something and mastered it each time, we would probably lose interest in fishing faster.

Thats why us old timers are still around for the challenge and solitude in the great outdoors, not the catching.

Hal


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Old 10-09-2002, 12:48 PM
KerryS KerryS is offline
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mmmmmm...........

I wonder if stopping by the local fly shop, asking what the bug of the day is while dropping a few bucks on flies or other stuff would improve your odds at catching the local trout? Maybe even get a some tips on where to uuuuuuuuuuuuu I won't go there
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Old 10-09-2002, 04:17 PM
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Beleive me there was maybe one fly shop in the Black Hills of South Dakota which was not in my area. I talked to some of the guys on the local fishing board who did give some tips. The local tackle guy in Custer did not have a clue about fly fishing. Wanted me to use berkely power bait, worms, etc...

Not many big hatches out there any way from what I could tell. Was there the last week in July, thought would be hopper time, had one slight touch on those. Water was a true small spring creek, nice little rivers have to get back there again, since they did appear to be under fished, and the scenery is delightful.
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Old 10-09-2002, 04:49 PM
fishboyicu812 fishboyicu812 is offline
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Wink Wouldn't want it to be easy...

Isn't that part of the fun? You go out one day and nail 'em and the next you are lucky if you get a chub. I am used to fishing South Central Pennsylvania spring creeks and you can be rest assured that frustration is simply a part of the game. It makes those fish that are caught that much better. Besides who wants to catch a bunch of big trout on a #12 dry fly?
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Old 10-09-2002, 07:15 PM
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Oh, yes your right. I remember one memorable day on the Big Beaverkill when I did every thing right. Picked off one riser after another below Horsebrook Run. All were 10 to 15 inches as I remember. A great day it was plus there was not another soul around. Thats my definition of a very good fly fishing day!! Had many others for trout, salmon, and steelhead over the years. Thats what keeps you coming back I think. For me now it is just to have a peaceful day alone or with a friend on a river or lake casting the fly rod in solitude. If I catch a fish thats great if not it is another lesson learned to me.
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Old 10-09-2002, 09:20 PM
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Re: Think about it for a minute here

Quote:
Originally posted by Scott K
Considering Steelhead are a Trout, we really do spend more time trout fishing than we think.
Actually Scott, steelhead are a salmon, much more closely related to the Pacific Salmon, genus Onchrynchus then trout such as the brown trout and Atlantic salmon, genus Salmo.

So I guess we all really fish for salmon and rarely fish for trout as I dont know abuot you but its been a while since I have pursued brown trout.
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Old 10-09-2002, 09:52 PM
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Re: Re: Think about it for a minute here

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Originally posted by NrthFrk16


Actually Scott, steelhead are a salmon
Say what????

ws
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Old 10-09-2002, 10:12 PM
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Re: mmmmmm...........

Quote:
Originally posted by KerryS
I wonder if stopping by the local fly shop, asking what the bug of the day is while dropping a few bucks on flies or other stuff would improve your odds at catching the local trout? Maybe even get a some tips on where to uuuuuuuuuuuuu I won't go there
Kerry, you catch the trout (since you are so good at it) and I'll catch the steelhead (since you can not) and we will make the perfect team!!
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Old 10-09-2002, 10:25 PM
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What Ryan is trying to say

Is that rainbows/steelhead aren't trout per-se, they are actually a salmonoid. The brown's are one of the only real "trouts" out there if memory serves me. I was schooled on this when I was an exchange student in Germany. They didn't appreciate the "German Browns" being associated with our pacific salmon. LOL. But rainbows/steelhead are part of the Salmonoid family.

Sparkey, I do believe when most were saying "trout" they refered to "bows" as we call them. Since Brown's aren't as prevelent here (though I have caught more then my share here). Most people here fish for "trout" as stated in the state regulations refering to steelhead and rainbows as "trout" along with a few other species.
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Old 10-09-2002, 10:56 PM
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First of all...I am sure Smalma will find some errors with the following and I would be more then happy to ask for his corrections.

Up until the mid-80's, the Pacific Salmon were salmon (genus Onchrynchus ) and the rainbow and cutthroat trout and their many subspecies were classified as trout (genus Salmon ).

When classified as Salmo prior to the turn of the century, rainbow and cutthroat trout were believed to be more closely related to brown trout, Atlantic salmon (not really a salmon but a tout), sea trout and other European trouts then Pacific Salmon.

Back in the mid-80's, taxonomists decided that the rainbow and cutthroat trouts were more closely related (evolutionary) to the Pacific Salmon then the brown trout, Atlantic Salmon etc and changed their genus to Onchyrnchus.

Because the first biologist to classify the rainbow and cutthroat trout as a salmon occured back in the 19th century, that biologist's name was given to the species... mykiss. It is customary that the first person to reconize a species is given the naming rights.

So Salmo gairdneri became Onchrynchus mykiss and Salmo clarkii became Onchryhnchus clarkii.

The Golden Trout, Apache and Gila trout were also reclassified.

If one is looking for a much better description of the history of this ongoing debate, check out Steve Raymond's Steelhead Country and the chapter 'Whats in a Name.' Also The Year of the Trout and in particular the chapter "Family Tree" authored by Raymond, give some intresting insights.

On a side note...I was given one of those popular Trout, Salmon and Char of North America with all the trout that are now Onchrynchus listed as Salmo. This was many years ago and was given to me as a gift by my uncle, a respected fisheries biologist and was accompied by a long lecture about the whole change.

Being 11 y's.o, the vast majority of it was way over my head but I did learn enough that I go around and tell people (in a 'know-it-all' tone of voice) that Atlantic Salmon were really a trout and rainbow trout were really a salmon...obviouly, no one believed me.

SH69-
Brown trout, Atlantic salmon, etc. are just as much a salmonId as rainbow trout, salmon and the chars such as the bull trout and Dolly Varden. Salmonid more or less refers to a general body shape and basic physiological similarities.
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  #14  
Old 10-09-2002, 11:19 PM
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Hmmmmm

They must have changed that recently then Sparkey (as in the last 20 years). My lecture was from one of the German biologists stocking the river I was lucky enough to gain access rights to from my Host parents best friend. Since I was an exchange student back in the 80's, I'm sure things have changed, just going off what I had learned way back then. Was under the explanation that they were another group. I could care less actually, I'm not fishing for a scientific name, I'm fishing for an ike, dog, king, silver, or cuttie. Could care less what scientific name they're given.
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Old 10-09-2002, 11:35 PM
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Re: Hmmmmm

Quote:
Originally posted by Steelheader69
I could care less actually, I'm not fishing for a scientific name, I'm fishing for an ike, dog, king, silver, or cuttie. Could care less what scientific name they're given.
I totally understand what you are saying...I could really care less as yourself but it makes for very intresting discussion and a great educational process. Although there are some, that are tried and true believers that steelhead and rainbow trout should still be classified as trout. Salmo g., are you out there?? :hehe:

btw-
I dug up the true definiton of a salmonid...

"any of a family (Salmonidae) of elongate bony fishes (as a salmon or trout) that have the last three vertebrae upturned"

The family Salmonidae includes the genera (genuses) Salmo, Onchorynchus and Salvelinus
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