No secret spots - Fly Fishing Forum
Pacific Northwest Sea Run Forum No such thing as rainbow trout, only landlocked steelhead

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Old 09-08-2002, 09:20 PM
skyrise skyrise is offline
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No secret spots

Can we get all the little known and "secret" spots out for everyone. One of my old standbys is now out and all over the net.
Will have to look for a new place now that everyone is all over this place I used to like to go.
Maybe there are no seceret spots left.
It sure is getting hard to find a spot thats not being fished to death, and from flyfishers too.
Never thought that would happen 30 years ago.
I remember the old days out with the long rod on the Sky in the winter and almost getting into fist fights with drifters just cause I had a fly rod out on 'their" waters.
How times have changed?
Maybe theres some good spots out on the salt chuck left?
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  #2  
Old 09-08-2002, 09:49 PM
fredaevans fredaevans is offline
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"Sky," just another good reason you couldn't pry me

out of Medford, OR. Fished Friday evening, Sat morning, Sat evening and ditto that for Sunday (2-3 hour shots, no more than 30 minutes from downtown Medford on the upper Rogue.

Result (no bull) Friday: 2 for 3, Sat 2 for 2, Sunday, 2 in the morning and hooked the KAHONA this evening. Fishing short with a 7136 and 6/7 xlt with a big black bug. 20'ish foot of line out of the tip and a 15-16 foot leader. On his first run he cleaned out the rest of the 120 foot of fly line and 30 some yards of backing.

Anyway, got him turned, line back on reel and back and forth for about 20 minutes to where he was 'almost mine for proper release.'

Three or 4 other folks at Denmon Bar/Ponds (one of the Beaches we did the Clinic on) had a very good look at "That's Mr. Fish To You" before he spit the hook 30 feet from me. Sigh??? Well, short line release, long line release he was one that should be in the Gene Pool.
fae

Think I've got to get a new key board; "stickey" keys make for a lot of letter drop outs. Yuck.
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  #3  
Old 09-08-2002, 10:13 PM
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juro juro is offline
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I still have secret spots. I have them on both coasts. They aren't necessarily the best spots in the world, but on some days they can be as good as any. I am not the only one to know about them; I see traces of others even when they are gone - but so few know about them that to the small circle in the know, they are still 'secret enough'.

I imagine back when there were less people, spots could be kept more secret than now. But the problem is not the internet, it's the people who are on it. The internet is just a physical medium. It does not give information, it only carries it. People give information.

In my opinion, in the big picture it helps the resource to have more anglers. The more people we have who enjoy a free-flowing, clean, productive river - the more people who will vote and work to keep it that way. We may lose a share of our solitude to others who come to love the river as we do, but they are our brothers in the fight to preserve what has not already been lost.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and mine is that it's better to share the water with many enthusiasts than fight against big industry and government as a small private interest minority with many special spots for each practitioner.

Once again in my humble opinion - take off from work on a Wednesday and start at dawn sharp. You can find a secret spot on almost any river. When the time comes to vote or fight to preserve these resources, I am glad more people are getting into it.

just my .02
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Old 09-08-2002, 10:18 PM
flytyer flytyer is offline
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Skyrise,

I fishied the infamous Fortson's Hole on the Stilly on Labor Day for 4 hours in the late afternoon/evening and saw only 3 other fishermen. And two of them were on their way out of the water and left as I arrived. The other fellow who arrived at the same time as myself had the water to ourselves for a little over four hours.

I lost the big Kahuna by putting too much pressure on the 6lb. tippet 5 minutes into the fight. It was sure fun!

Fished the upper Sky yesterday for 2-3 hours and saw 4 other fisherman (all using fly gear). Two were just putting their rods together at the bridge over Hwy 2 as I was driving by it; 1 was fishing the run a 1/4 mile below me; and the other 1 began fishing the run above me the last hour of daylight. Almost forgot, I was fishing the camp water, which is hardly a secret spot.

Amazing how we can find water like this that is supposed to be full of anglers virtually empty. Maybe everyone is thinking that it will be crowded.
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Old 09-09-2002, 12:49 AM
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There are some spots left

There aren't many, but some. I know of a couple rivers that come to mind. Some aren't secret, some are simply just so hard to access, only die hard fisherman (didn't say fly, said die hard) will attempt to fish them. Then, there is a couple that have awesome runs of fish that I see maybe a handful of locals fishing. I've been fishing this river for a good 24 years (my Dad well over 50 years) and have yet to see a fly fisherman, nor a non local fish it (besides ourselves). Has a quick run of fish, have to know when to fish it. Most people simply drive by it without thinking of hitting fish there.

Life is good, until one of these fisheries gets put into a magazine. I know one day my few remaining spots will be posted. It was bad enough when the Nooch was put up on the block. I remember when you were lucky to see only a couple boats and a handful of guys fishing it back in the 70's. Now everyone is fishing it.
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Old 09-09-2002, 01:55 AM
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Eddie said it in the thread regarding flyshops...he stated:

Quote:
When I come up on a river and see "too many" people, I include myself and look for a different spot.
We will all have to learn to live with it and we will just have to search out new 'secret' spots if we can not handle the people.
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Old 09-09-2002, 06:18 AM
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I think there is more to it than "grit your teeth and bear it". I'd add that it is important that those who join in become part of the solution for preserving our resources, not part of the problem. There should be a sort of fellowship between anglers that puts the power of the community toward a positive outcome on behalf of the fish populations and their habitats, and most often there is.

Yet one fault of many anglers is that they put their own interests first, therefore creating a lack of unity in the group overall. This is evident for example in the "bonk a native" crowd. Is that good for a fishery, or for a fisher? In my definition, an angler is one who has a true sense of ownership and responsibility; a deep bond with the river - not someone who exploits it.

The angler has this true bond to the river because he interacts with it and it's creatures. We can use as many of this type as possible, it's the other type we need to worry about.

.02
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Old 09-09-2002, 12:38 PM
old man old man is offline
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I know how you all feel about secret spots. I gave one out a few years back and then it wasn't secret any more and no more fish either. I still have a few spots left,but now that I'm older than dirt I can't get in to them any more. Wife says not to do it alone anymore. If I fall I might not make it out. So I just fish where everyone else does. Close to the road.

And some are in the head waters of the "Sky".
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Old 09-09-2002, 03:06 PM
OC OC is offline
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Ryan,
Eddies statement is very true and we all need to look at it that way.
But in your statement you said we all have to live with it and just search out new secret spots.
I would really like to know why and honestly why we have to live with it.
Do you not feel that you me and all of us can have a positive effect on fishermen, shops and the industry who give out too much info by not giving out as much info. Just seems to me that at this period of time in the history of fly fishing we tend to take great pride in letting everyone know that we caught fish, where we caught fish and how we caught fish and even that we didn't catch fish at a certain spot. It's gotten to the point where it's the in thing to do with many and I've been guilty more than once.

So what I'm asking to you and anyone if they care to respond, don't you feel fly fishing might be better off if we set the standard by not giving out as much info? Not the basic info like for you in the shop when someone asks"where are the steelhead this week" and you say they are running in the Sky, Skagit and Stilly so give one of those rivers a try.

You know Ryan we all can search out secret spots but there is a saying that you can run but you can't hide. I'm getting older and have been runing for new fishing spots for too many years and maybe for all those who feel the same that it's up to us to make popular again the need to share less info. Ya know fishing is much more fun when there is a mystery about it.
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  #10  
Old 09-09-2002, 05:31 PM
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I don't get it - if people share less info how does that improve flyfishing and for whom does it improve?

IMHO sharing is good, and the number of people you will see out there is a percentage of the total population pretty much regardless of what you do or don't do. If you see too many people for your tastes, well maybe there are just too many people period. I don't think clamming up is going to make anything better.

I really enjoy the people I meet on the river with very few exceptions. Maybe the best thing to do is to enjoy your fellow anglers' company and put your best fly forward.

I've caught many a steelhead in the company of others and to tell the truth I don't often feel like they are messing me up. If so, I simply move to another "secret spot", I've got a bunch of 'em.

.02
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  #11  
Old 09-09-2002, 06:53 PM
skyrise skyrise is offline
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I used to fish the Kalama alot back in the 70's, but then the word got out and that great river was listed in almost all the mags. Dont fish there much anymore. Used to be you would see maybe 6 boats all day, now, who knows. I agree we need more fly fishers, but heck lets spread them out, so we are not on top of each other all the time.
Shops are great for info, but they give out too much some times, like when you go in and theres a reader board listing all the hot spots for that week.
Of course having more quality waters would help. I guess any new spots will have to be kept close to the vest from now on.
Sad, cause I like helping fellow anglers.
I too search the net for more info, but I really dont expect to get anybodys seceret spot from it.
If there are so many more fly fishers now, lets lobby for more quality waters!
Anyway good luck to everyone (maybe its time to go back to the drift gear?).
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Old 09-09-2002, 11:11 PM
flytyer flytyer is offline
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Steelheader 69,

I know exactly what you mean about what happens when a magazine publishes an article about where to go on a particular river. I saw several rivers get overrun with boats and inconsiderate guides in Montana during the 12 years I spent there. It got to be so bad that people who lived there began asking for restrictions on the number of guide boats allowed on several rivers.

I also saw this happen on the Salmon River in the Queets drainage on the Olympic Peninsula. An article was put into HUNTING & FISHING NEWS that included where to go, specific runs and holes, and best times to go for coho. This once wonderful place to go has become a zoo ever since the article was published 6 years ago. People cast over each others line, threaten others, purposely get in the water right in front of you (nearly touching your shoulders to do so), and in general make fishing a miserable experience regardless of the type of gear you use.

Old Man,

I know about giving out secret spots as well. I made the mistake once of telling a person about one such place on a local river. The following week, it was in FISHING & HUNTING NEWS! There were so many people in the three back to back runs I told him about, you couldn't make a cast without snagging someone's line. I was taken rather aback by the number of folks therein since it required a walk of about 1/2 mile to get in to them. It seems that if a magazine publishes info on a particular run or pool, the herd decides it is the place to be. Thankfully, last year ( a full 4 years after it was published) the herd had decided not to go there. I sure hope it doesn't get pubnlished again.

Juro,

I have no problem with a shop or magazinde giving out generalized info such as there are fish in the Sky, the Skagit has fresh fish, there is a great blue wing olive hatch on the Yakima, etc. This doesn't provide the exact places to go. It provides the info that a good fishermen needs to decide where to go. Then he is on his own. Also, I don't have a problem with a shop or magazine saying that the hot fly or lure is --- and the best time of day is ---. Again this doesn't tell them exactly where to go. Giving out access points is also no problem because an access point is usually not good holding water, it is simply a place to access the river.
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Old 09-10-2002, 04:56 PM
OC OC is offline
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Juro,
While the fishing industry in general has stayed even in growth over the last 2 years the fly fishing segment of the industry has grown 18.1 percent in that same time span.

I'm not sure if you are trying to make it sound like it is a selfish act for those who wish for less info given out in our fly fishing community. I'll be positive and assume that was not your sole intention but wanted more information with your post above.

There is no question that we all want our time on the water to be a quality experience. It's not a question that quality can be a different thing for each person because most of us realize that is just the case. For some here who have voiced their concern about different stretches of water being over run after a promotional article in a magazine or by a fly shop who's philosophy is tell all and our customer base will continue to grow because fishermen want that info. And yes there are plenty of shops that think that way. Also is the concern that over the internet the giving away of specific info about certain spots be it secret or popular does bring more fishermen to to that area. So yeh there is some selfishness when a local conplains that his waters have gotten over crowded because information has been given out by whoever.

This I feel strongly goes far deeper than the cry of selfishness of some local. That cry is not only about too many people fishing around him. Realized or not that cry is a concern about his local resourse and the adverse affects extra crowds driven by new and specific information that continually shows up can have on his watershed. Juro, Kush and Ryan have brought up that the more information we have, the more fly fishermen we have, means the more people we have to wage the needed wars against pollution, unchecked growth and developement sprawl. This is true and many great things have been done for the bennefit of our enviroment by fly fishing groups and induviduals big and small through out the country. I will go as far to say that even the fly fishing industry who I have a tendency to mistrust over last 10 years has given an increadible amount of money time and information to fight for great causes. All the indviduals, the industry should be commended for the efforts over the last 25 years or so...... But?

When does this increadble wealth of information which has driven the tremendous popularity in fly fishing reach a high point and then begin to be detrimental? When do we begin to love our fishing rivers, bays and ponds to death? You say it can't happen, not where I live anyway? I have mentioned in previous posts on similar subjects about the adverse affects that are taking place in some of the rocky mountain states from the result of the over popularity of fly fishing so I won't go there but they are real and with a growth in the fly fishing industry of 18.1 percent those adverse effects could be coming soon to a river or bay near you. You maybe saying, "what does the giving out of information have to do with those problems"? One only has to read the sport fishing trade publications to understand that our fishing industry is using information and as much information as possible to keep the growth and profit of fly fishing increasing. Every fly fishing publication and TV fishing show is industry information published with it's featured and non featured articles not solely for the bennifit of we the fishermen but for the industry ability to sell us many fly fishing related things. One need only complete reading a glamorous information article in a FF mag and notice that the very next thing you read is multiple informational advertising for resorts, fly shops and guides in the area that you just read about. This is not a bad thing it is capitalism at it's best. But sometimes capitalism at it's best brings problems like over developement of our enviroment we have all seen this, look at Cape Cod, look at the Skagit valley, the Frazier Valley. I ask all of you this question with great concern, could the increasing of popularity of fly fishing in your area become a over developement issue in your watershed. Just one example: Take the time to research the Madison River in Montana drainage problems from whirling disease to septic infiltration and high nitrates. Caused by who? Yup, us the flyfisherman who has bought 90% of the land along the river and subdivided for their own little piece of paradise. It was industry information that popularized fly fishing there. It was industry information that made the Madison River a great catch@release fly fishery. And it was industry information that has now created the very problems mentioned above. This is not just a sub developement issue could it be an over developement in the ability of just being able to go out and enjoy your local river.

What I feel we need and like Kush and Juro it's just my opinion. I've fly fished for 38 years, been following the popularity of fly fishing with great interest now for 25 years. I love fly fishing dearly and most of those who fly fish. For many of those years I enthusiasticly supported the growth of fly fishing, the sharing and developent of the information that helped create it's popularity. There is a growing concern begining to grow not just by me but by many that we may become the very enemy we have fought. I've racked my brain and soul for a solution. It is my belief that we as fly fishermen need to just slow down some, after all that is why so many have fly fished since Walton . A piece of mind and soul I believe. Take a good look around, we are going at a very fast pace, fly fishing should not be that way. I really think that if we as fishermen just cool our jets on all the info we give out to other fishermen we will have a tendancy to slow down the process of fly fishing. Maybe we can find some type of stabelization in our art form as it is now sport, maybe we can relay or set an example to the industry or to those few who still are in the idustry that fly fished for the love of it to build a good sound base of the already clientel and encourage those new to fly fishing to slow down and enjoy the entire learning process that comes not so much from info but from the beauty of just being out there fishing
Sorry it's long but fellow fly fishermen take a good look where we maybe headed and is it where we really want to go.
OC
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Old 09-10-2002, 09:08 PM
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OC -

I read your whole post and admire your passion for preserving the 'quiet' in the quiet sport. Thanks for taking the time to reply - but I fear my posts may have been interpreted well beyond their intent.

I re-read my own posts and can't understand how you might interpret the sole intent as such. I wouldn't necessarily assume that I am implying selfishness by promoting it's alternatives.

As stated my concern is that I am not sure a large population of introverts is better for flyfishing than the same population of extroverts, and I also suggested that perhaps the problem is largely the size of the population itself.

I don't have the answers, just a philosophy.

So let me ask - aside from the commentary, what actions are you (specifically) suggesting that people take?
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Old 09-10-2002, 10:50 PM
SparseHairHackl SparseHairHackl is offline
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Interesting thread.

People frequenting this forum seem to generally be exceptions, but I think that some fishers are much more willing to spend major $ to travel great distances to better fishing, rather than invest $ to preserve/enhance their local fisheries. Granted, we all crave variety, and one can't fish for, say, bonefish in the Pacific NW, but if fishers didn't act like there were alternatives to their local waters, perhaps we'd have better habitat, and more waters designated as "quality", be that FF only, or artificials only, or C&R as appropriate.

Just to make sure I'm not insulting anyone, my impression is strong that those within this forum who travel great distances to fish also, like those who don't, put forth significant efforts on behalf of fisheries.

I think the problem is, to a significant extent, one of numbers. Also, though, the ease of information exchange has facilitated success (fish caught) in the sport for even those of modest interest. Individuals with only modest interest tend to care only about their fishing, and not the resource. If their interest was tested by having to find their own way in the sport a bit more, like many of us, then they might not have continued.

Of course, a counter-argument is that "converting" non FF fishers to flyfishing tends to make them more concerned about the resource, since FFers generally have more success the more we learn about our quarry and their habitat.

To sum this up, I guess I agree with Juro's comments:
"In my definition, an angler is one who has a true sense of ownership and responsibility; a deep bond with the river - not someone who exploits it.
The angler has this true bond to the river because he interacts with it and it's creatures. We can use as many of this type as possible, it's the other type we need to worry about."

IMO, easy information can bring more people into the sport that will not invest back into fishery resources, but creating more FFers can also develop more people who understand and care about threats to those resources. Therefore, there is no clear-cut answers to when and how much info is appropriate.

--Bill
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