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  #1  
Old 06-18-2002, 11:44 AM
John Desjardins John Desjardins is offline
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7 & 8X tippets

I'm curious what others use when the conditions call for really fine tippets. I've been using Umpqua 7.5X flurocarbon but am wondering if there is something better out there?
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Old 06-18-2002, 12:09 PM
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John you have to go that small with fluro? Usually I get away with one tippet size bigger than I would fish with regualr mono due to the vanishing properties of the fluro.

I really like the umpqua stuff for tippett material. A lot stronger than maxima for its diameter. The 6x stuff is as strong as the 5x maxima. Maxima overall is pretty much junk unless you are fishing the bigger stuff like we do for steelhead out here.

I assume you are using the fluro for nymphs and such? I have on occasion have found that lengthing the leader instead of going down a tippett size has been the best bet for catching spooky fish. Usually if I am getting refusals my first inclination is the lengthen the leader and then go down to smaller tippett if that aint working.

-sean
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Old 06-18-2002, 01:09 PM
John Desjardins John Desjardins is offline
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Sean, I'm mostly interested in it for midges & emergers on the surface. This is for a couple of select places where the fish see a lot of imitations. With nymphs I don't go smaller than 6X. I agree that lengthening the leader helps, but sometimes in close guarters a long (>12') leader is tough to use.
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Old 06-19-2002, 09:15 AM
Brad Brad is offline
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John, we fish for pretty selective trout in cheeseman and on spinney mile. I go through spools of 6x fluoro for the subsurface fishing. The fluoro does not give a good presentation for the surface flies so I switch over to 6 or 7 regular tippit for that.

Brad
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Old 06-19-2002, 09:27 AM
John Desjardins John Desjardins is offline
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Thanks Brad,
I've noticed the presentation problems with flurocarbon on drys & emergers. That is one reason I'm looking for alternatives.

Its interesting that the spools of flurocarbon in trout sizes I'm using were bought the last time I was in your neck of the country. There may be some regional differences at play here.
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Old 06-19-2002, 12:02 PM
Brad Brad is offline
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John, here is another thing that seemed to work well. I was fishing below a spillway to fish in about 8-10 feet of water. The trick was to get down as fast as possible. I loop connected about 18 inches of red amnesia to my fly line. I then connected 12 feet of Berkley Vanish 4 or 6 lb test to the amnesia. With a split shot the rig goes straight to the bottom. The straight vanish sinks much faster than a tapered leader and is all fluorocarbon. If the rig stuck on the bottom and was lost just spool off some more. I could not afford to make that rig with the umpqua tippit material at $10 per 30 yard spool.
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Old 06-19-2002, 12:35 PM
John Desjardins John Desjardins is offline
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Thanks Brad, sounds like an interesting rig.
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Old 06-19-2002, 12:52 PM
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You probably do not want to use fluro for dry fly presentation. It sinks like a rock unlike mono. It is much better for subsurface presentations.

One thing I did last year when fishing a small creek and needed a good presentation was this.

I overlined my rod 2 sizes with a WF line. Distance was not what I wanted and with this setup there was no way I could cast over 30 feet without overloading the rod. I actually only needed to cast about 15-20 feet. With the bigger line all I did was get a few feet of line out of the rod tip to get a decent load on the rod. I then went with a 12 foot leader and had no problem with 15-20 foot casts and still maintaned a bit of stealth with the long leaders.


-sean
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Old 06-19-2002, 10:05 PM
artb artb is offline
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John you might look at an article I wrote , scroll through the list on the left hand column. "Fishing the Two Weight" 4-25-01.It is something I believe in, Light rod, light tippets, and small flies. I even have caught 4 lb trout on nylon thread, I don't know what its strength, but I used it alot. If you like to fish in the surface film take hook sizes 24 - 28, just take a strand of peacock herl wrap it around the hook, and run the tying thread back over the herl almost like a ribbing, it helps make the fly last longer as herl breaks easy. Hope I gave you something new to try.
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Old 06-20-2002, 09:22 AM
John Desjardins John Desjardins is offline
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Thanks guys

Thanks everyone.

Sean, I've only been going up 1 weight for the short game. What I'm working on for the future is a slow, short fiberglass 3 wt that loads well (in test casting ) at short distances. I just have to get off my duff and coat the wraps and it will be ready.

Art, It's always a pleasure to have your input. I will reread your article. My memory is that it is a good one. The peacock herl fly sounds like a good one. I hope that all is well on your end.
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Old 06-20-2002, 11:52 AM
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Fluorocarbon tippets

John:

Since I use fluorocarbon tippets almost exclusively here are some of the characteristics that differ from a standard mono. Fluoro has a higher specific gravity than mono so it sinks considerably better. So don't use it for drys. It has slightly less breaking strength than mono so the same size "X" will be slightly lower in pound test. It has very low light reflectivity. It almost disappears when it hits the water. It has a higher abrasion resistance than mono. So' if you are fishing a streamer that is bouncing through the rocks, you dont need to retie the fly knot as often. It has less stretch. This is more about knots and knot strength. I use extremly small knots for small flies (More about that later if you like). The problem with a small knot is if it slips it unties. Mono will stretch so it has a tendency to untie on occasion. I have considerably less problem with the fluoro on that issue. Lastly, is the cost issue. Fluoros are considerably more expensive. I typically buy in 100 meter spools now for about twice the price of a 25 meter spool. Lastly, I have used just about every major brand on the market. Thus far the two that get my highest recommendation are Rio and Segar.

Just a helpful tip here: The reasoning behind the "X" notation on tippet is the die size used to extrude it. The diameter of the line and the die used will add up to 11. Thus a 0X will have a .011 diameter and a 9X will have a .002 diameter, 5x will be .006, and so on. Beyond that there is no direct relationship to the breaking strength. Amazing how much useless information you can keep in your head huh?

John
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Old 06-20-2002, 01:05 PM
John Desjardins John Desjardins is offline
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Thank you John,

I'd like to hear about the small knot. One problem I've been having with the fluro is slipped knots.

On the X's with some brands 4X = 4#, beyond that there is no correlation os X-breaking strength that I know of.
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Old 06-20-2002, 01:32 PM
DFix DFix is offline
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I read Art's article when he first put it up here. I enjoyed it. I think it's interesting to read something that makes you think in common sense terms, because it then becomes so elementary - almost like "gee, why didn't I think of that???"

It proves a point, too - that experience is the best teacher
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Old 06-20-2002, 06:27 PM
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Knot

John:

I've never seen this knot published as yet. A friend of mine from Wales showed it to me during a competition. You can tie on a fly in about 5 seconds literally. No tags to trim. Plus I'd say the know is just about full strength. The fish on my profile over there <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< was landed on 6X with that knot. I'll try and get a picture of it tied with rope. But the real secret to it is how you use your fingers.

John
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  #15  
Old 06-20-2002, 10:20 PM
John Desjardins John Desjardins is offline
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Art, Thats a good article. It didn't get the notice it should have when it was published. For me it reinforced that I need to finish the 3 wt and lighten the tackle when going to light tippett. Thanks again.
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