Am I Too Optimisitc?? - Fly Fishing Forum
Pacific Northwest Sea Run Forum No such thing as rainbow trout, only landlocked steelhead

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Old 11-12-2001, 08:31 AM
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Am I Too Optimisitc??

I think more then anyone, I would love to see a banner year for winter-runs. I am itching or should I say dying, to be swinging a fly and have the not so familiar tug of winter-run on the end of my rod (winter-runs have been very stingy to me on the flyrod).

And I just get excited every year around this time as I not only love swinging flies for these beauties, I also enjoy throwing rags and pink worms at 'em on the Hoh and getting away from the people and enjoy the intimacies of driftfishing small streams.

And well, everyday, it seems as though there are more and more reports of winter-runs being caught out of local rivers. I heard of a winter-run out the Nooksack, the Cowlitz, pretty much all over the Coast and numerous reports of winter-runs out of the Sky. Although I am skeptical of that last one as we all know the Sky gets pushes of bright summer-runs through November...swinters we call 'em (the caudal pedunctle is a dead giveway to tell whether a steelie is a true summer-run or winter-run). Plus with the Sky just being stuffed with coho-many of which are bright-some neophytes just cant tell the differance between them and bright steelies.

This came from the Salmon River on the Quinault Reservation yesterday. Total carnage but atleast they're all brats (and not Nates)...

http://www.geocities.com/lettyrene/fishrepr.html

So they're on their way.
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  #2  
Old 11-13-2001, 06:12 AM
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Dear user,

This is to inform you that our profanity filter has registered a 5.3 on the post you recently made entitlted "Am I Too Optimistic". The offending words were "pink worm" and "rags". Normally these would register a higher impact but they were parsed in the context of such a wonderful post that the rating was lowered.

5.3 is only a warning (5.0 - 7.0) and as such does not require that you change your post. However the incident will be reported to the purist police and may be retained on your record should you advance to words in the high impact range like "roe" or "smelly jelly".

I'm JOKING! Ryan, couldn't resist any more than you could. }>
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Old 11-13-2001, 01:32 PM
KerryS KerryS is offline
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Juro,

I know of a couple of people that tie a fly just like a San Juan worm only bigger and pink. They claim to have had some success with them. Don't how this works with the purist thing.

KLS
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Old 11-13-2001, 03:31 PM
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I tie several patterns that you would never see in the dictionary under fly myself, some of which contain zero natural materials and with the hook snapped off at the bend could be placed in a .25 vending machine at the front door of a grocery store with the other hairy, multi-legged, rubber bouncy token toys.

Believe me I am just poking fun.

Although I am pretty much dedicated to flyfishing, when my good buddy Northfk mirthfully includes the mention of pink rubber worms designed for largemouth bass texas rigged on the lilly pads into his post, he's 'trolling' for me to chime in as I see it. And who am I not to comply? I have about as much composure to hold back as a Sekiu silver on Leland's popper pattern.

A few things I would say about this purism stuff...

(1) First of all it should not be taken very seriously, it's hard to see the intended sense of humor in alphanumerics even with the little smilie faces - but be assured that it's there in my posts.

(2) Secondly no ones says you have to be a fly fishing ONLY practitioner to be part of the community - that's totally untrue. On the other hand if you are a FF-only type, you should feel that the Flyfishing Forum is a very comfortable place to hang out (you might not feel as comfortable somewhere else). That's what I mean when I say purism is OK here, it's a refuge of sorts for the minority who are dedicated to FF. But don't take that to mean the opposite is true...

If you are not a FF-only guy you should feel just as comfortable here, but you can expect that the subject matter will be... well, "flyfishing oriented" (hence the name).

In fact some guys who hang out here are not flyfishermen at all but after hanging out with us for a while are on the verge of becoming one voluntarily.

Most importantly...

(3) IMHO the word "purism" is fine as long as it's used in the context of a joke -or- is a personal thing. When purism is a notion in one's own mind to lead them to master something in a more focused manner, it's a good thing. On the other hand, if the word is used in any type of comparison between more than one person, it is judgemental and fosters ill will. Purism is a friggin joke, let's face it - unless it's something one feels in his or her heart - like using only hand carved decoys, or natural materials only, or twisted gut eyes, etc. If it is kept to one's self as a way of practicing something of passion, it's downright admirable and if you think about it we often hold the highest respect for people because of a personal kind of "purism".

But when someone judges another's ways based on their own values, that's how the BAD connotation of purism arises. I would go as far as to say that is not purism, but prejudice.

Purism is about the self, and has no place beyond a person's own mind. The key is to keep it in perspective.
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Old 11-13-2001, 05:31 PM
KerryS KerryS is offline
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Whoops, sorry. I could have left the reference to purist out. Just wanted to know what you thought of the pink worm fly.
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Old 11-13-2001, 05:38 PM
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dOh! Something about that word!

Anyway, I'm the one who's sorry to have missed the point of your post. I haven't used them myself but I am conviced of the effectiveness of chenille "worms" whether tied to a hook in a San Juan style or a madam X style.

I'm sure that would work. I don't know if I would consider it my go-to fly though }>
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Old 11-13-2001, 06:34 PM
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So soaking my Black Scampi pattern in shrimp oil is a bad thing???????
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Old 11-13-2001, 08:35 PM
Fred Evans Fred Evans is offline
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Well 'fish oil' may be pushing it a bit far. But I'll bet with a touch of garlic, a bit of butter and Basil the "black Scampi" would be quite good on the Barbie.
:>)
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Old 11-13-2001, 11:53 PM
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Juro-
The post shall become a classic. I was dying laughing...


And a notice to everyone...dont think that Sinktip is kidding. He was in the other day buying not only sandshrimp but pencil lead and egg cure.
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Old 11-14-2001, 12:01 AM
Highlander Highlander is offline
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Reminds me of an almost fishless day on the sauk at last light at the native hole when my fishing buddy watched me tie on one of those foam flatfish flies with the marabou tail. The look on his face was of total shock being the purist type that he is. As he shook his head I spey casted that sucker to the other side and just as it reached the end of the swing the line went tight and the reel screamed with me running down into the tail out in almost pitch darkness stumbling over the large rocks on the way down. The fish was landed in fast water a good hundred yards down stream and till this day I can't remember a stronger fish. Thats when I turned to him and said it's O.K to try something different once in awhile!

Brian
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Old 11-14-2001, 12:59 AM
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LOL, I love offending purists. I'm a fisherman that uses a flyrod and conventional rods (not a fly fisherman or a baitfisherman). I find nothing wrong with swinging an extra long pink leech (basically a worm pattern). I've caught quite a few steelhead just dead drifting an unweighted "pink worm" style fly. Normally I use pink rabbit strips and leave about a 3 inche trailer off hook and palmer the rest. So YES, they do work. They're easy to tie and work really good on the coast (hey Ryan they're really good on the Hoh). Don't worry Sparkey, it's when you give up and don't try is when that line starts tugging on you. It's like throwing a spey, the harder you try the less ground you cover.
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Old 11-14-2001, 05:55 AM
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Given that purism is something a person decides for himself and that you don't need to be a fly-only guy to hang out here, I have to confess that I don't understand the logic of loving to flyfish for steelhead and then using other means when the going gets tough. Personally, I do not cast anything but flies for steelhead - period. Sure I use gear for halibut, or when I meat fish, but I don't meat fish for steelhead. At the risk of sounding like I am full of BS I guess I feel that I really don't need anything but flies to fish successfully for steelhead.

WHOA! What kind of braggadry is this they might say? Let me make my case... when I lived in steelhead country (putting all modesty aside) I had great success hooking steelies on flies and when I come back once or twice a year I've never been denied even with a year of inactivity in between visits, rusty as could be yet find it very satisfying to hook up consistently during return visits. On my last visit (September 01) I solidly hooked 4 steelhead, not including a touch on the Elwha - landing 2 of them in 2.5 full days of steelheading in bony flows and missing some prime times from being too damn tired from Sekiu coho slamming.

It's a personal thing, but to me if you love to flyfish for steelhead and have to resort to other means just to catch fish, I have to ask the question:

Doesn't every day you don't try take a day away from your total skills as a fly angler?
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Old 11-14-2001, 01:34 PM
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Im still relatively young and it really have been only in the past couple years or so that I believe my skills have grown to a point where everytime I go out, I expect to catch a fish.

But Im not satisfied. I still want to learn about the quirks of steelhead behavior, about the goofy water they will hold in and the prime water that they do not etc. etc. etc. Fishing gear allows that as I have enough confidence in my technique that when I cover water with gear, I can honestly say I COVERED that water. If I did not hit a fish it was more or less the fish were not going to bite at all or plain and simple there were not any fish.

I want to get a better understanding of steelhead behavior and their preferences and fishing the fly 100% of the time just does not allow that. Or maybe it does and I just do not have enough confidence in my ability to cover the water with the fly!?

I would love more then anything to develop the ability to consistently catch steelhead with the fly so that everytime I go out I have confidence in my ability. I see someday that happening but I'm still too new, too young and still have a whole lot to learn.
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Old 11-14-2001, 02:24 PM
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Ryan,

I have seen you cast and you can certainly cover the water fine. Of course the water one can cover with a fly differs from that gear is capable of. When you decide to lay down the gear rod you will do just fine with the long rod. Now I just need to get you to put away the tampons, uh excuse me indicators, and sink or swim with a swung fly.

Oh by the way, if you are going to let the cat out of the bag about my gear purchases, please don't forget to tell everyone about the treble hooks.

ST
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Old 11-14-2001, 02:59 PM
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I think you'll find that, when you start fishing the spey rod, not only will your effectiveness triple (at least) for winter fish but you'll have a lot more fun while on the river.

I was comparing notes with another spey convert and we both agreed that, if we fished winter/spring steelhead at all, we'd either (a) do it with a gear rod or (b) do much less of it if we weren't fishing with the twohanded rod.

Your ability to control the fly from greater distances with the longer/heavier tips, fish larger flies, and generally cover more water quicker are all big advantages.
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