Where are the Atlantic Salmon Fisherman ? - Page 2 - Fly Fishing Forum
Classic Atlantic Salmon No pursuit rivals salmon rivers, flies & legacy

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  #16  
Old 12-26-2001, 04:09 PM
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Hal

>When you say single bank that means only one fisherman per pool ? Dual bank means two fisherman per pool I suppose that have reserved that section of river. >

Yes and no, single bank in Scotland, means the river has two banks the right and the left, one person may own the left and another the right. You may be only allowed to fish the right hand side of the river and someone else will be fishing the left. Some estates have agreements so you are never fishing across from someone else. On the Spey it is so wide it does not really matter. Politeness suggests that you follow the people from the other bank, but I have had rude/ ignorant people push in infront of me. They tend not to do it again as being chased down a pool with a weighted tube landing close behind you does nothing for the day out, it is when casting a long line really works.

Generally everything works out with a bit of common sense, the problems occur when to much pressure comes on the waters.

Salmon are caught on the Spey from Feb thru' to September. The numbers in Feb are fairly low but the prices reflect this. I enjoy a few Feb/ March days a there are always a lot of kelts on the go which keeps the interest up and you are always in with a chance of a fresh fish, and when you catch one they are a thing of beauty.
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  #17  
Old 12-26-2001, 04:19 PM
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Sounds lovely, I bet the atlantic salmon fly fisherman in Europe are more knowledgeable than our steelhead fly fisherman here. Due to the american open fishing combat fishing situations such as you described are common on the more famous rivers here.

To cold here in the midwest to really fish for steelhead until April, I have done it but beleive me fishing in thirty degree temperatures or lower is tough.

Cheers,

Hal
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  #18  
Old 12-26-2001, 05:27 PM
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Hey PM...
I am an Atlantic FFsher at heart and in "remission" for the past 20 years since I left the East (Montreal).
I have only made it out to the Miramichi 3 times in the last 10 years. I remember fondly the days when my Dad and me would get out to do our annual "Atlantic Trip", usually in mid Sept. which means I got off school for several days. I hope in the next years to come that I can combine an Atlantic trip with my annual Striper trip to the Cape.
Willlie,
I also plan to visit your bonnie land and visit my buddy Ally Gowans, in Pitlochry. He fishes the river Tummel and his home is in walking distance to the river. If I can get my wife to agree, to an early trip, sometime in Feb or March, rather than May ( she wants to go to the flower gardens.. UGH!) then I may see you out there.
As for Trout, come to my part of the world in Western Canada, (Alberta) and experience the wild Rainbows, Browns and Cutties we have out here. It's a trip you will never forget...
British Columbia is also an awesome place to be at and I spend many days hooking up with the Kamloops trout every year.

So there are Atlantic aficionados and Trout bums everywhere on
this Board.
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  #19  
Old 12-26-2001, 05:38 PM
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French Creek,

Another atlantic salmon fisherman I think we are up to 4-5 now. There must be more out there, we will see. Have read about the Miramachi and drove through that area on a camping trip during the early 80's. College camping trip did montreal, quebec, down through new brunswick and Maine, to Cape Cod, and then back to NYC. However we were chasing women and not fish on that trip. Never got back to fish it though. Bow River I also have read about. Went skiing to Banff and Lake Louise in 1976 beautiful country out there. Lots of places to visit that are represented by fly fisherman on this forumn. My frequent flyer tickets could be burned up quickly.
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  #20  
Old 12-26-2001, 05:42 PM
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Hal,

I recall reading about certain rivers in Montana where if the land owner owns both banks they also "own" the stream bed and the water flowing over at any given moment. Anyway, I know they run fences acoss the river to prevent floating over their "land"

andre
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  #21  
Old 12-26-2001, 05:49 PM
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Hal, Those are good points about the Salmon River.. My last trip there a couple years ago reveal big crowds. What I remember most was when I went into Pulaski one afternoon and everyone, and I mean everyone, was dressed in their waders. Guys getting haircuts in Barber chairs, people leaving the super market with bags in their arms.. people walking out of banks, drug store, diners, you name it.. I thought I was in another country. The Banks of the river that went though town was packet as was the bridges. I kept my waders on for fear that if I took them off.. I might hear.."look... an outsider... seize him".
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  #22  
Old 12-26-2001, 06:30 PM
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Sounds like some of the Michigan river towns before they banned salmon snagging 3 years ago. The whole town's economy was based on selling services to the annual salmon snagging onslaught. That is why I stopped fishing during the fall salmon runs due to the volume and character of the snaggers. Did NY ban snagging yet, maybe Pulaski is changing for the better ?
Note although it was banned in Michigan the locals and some out of staters still think they have a right to do it. Weighted treble hooks with a few chicken feathers on it is not my idea of fly fishing, although some snaggers thought this was OK in a fly fishing only section. Many combat fishing situations were created due to the snagging. One local bragged to me about going down river to find a fresh pool of salmon and throwing dynamite in to stun and harvest them. He was serious. I let him have the pool I was fishing of course and moved on.
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  #23  
Old 12-26-2001, 07:58 PM
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Navigable vs. non-Nav. water.

Doc,
What Hal's referring to is Nav. vs. Non-nav. water. If a river is classified as a navigable river the adjacent landowner owns the property to the high water mark. The State or Fed's own the 'ground' under the stream/river. Once you've gained access to 'ground' below the high water mark you're on public property.

On non-nav. waters, the land owner owns the property to the "thread" (center line) of the stream. Here you (general public) can fish as long as you're in a boat ie: not standing/trespassing on his land 'under' the water.
:eyecrazy: And so go our Laws.

Fred
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  #24  
Old 12-27-2001, 09:06 AM
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Yes, Fred's banking and real estate knowledge is paying off. That is the way I understand it perhaps other states here in the US have other laws. But in general in the US if you are floating on the water you are legal. They cannot legally remove you from a navigable waterway. However you must physically launch from a public access point and then float into the river sections whose land is privately owned. The only exceptions are some small streams and lakes which are totally enclosed within private property and are not navigable or do not have a public entry point to launch from.

Now thinking about it I do not ever remember seeing drift boats or canoes used for fly fishing on rivers in Europe or UK, Scotland etc.. This must be the reason private ownership of the land and water which flows through it.

Note there are some prime fly fishing rivers in the US in which I think float fishing canoes, rafts, yaks, drift boats, are banned such as the Beaverkill, Willowemuc in the Catskill region of NY state where I started fly fishing. I wish they would implement this on my beloved Pere Marquette (PM). The drift boats started in the mid 1980s and sections of the river which required a long walk in now are accessible by the drift boats. There were days I would see 0 or 1 other fisherman. Not any more due to the drift boats and canoes. River is to small for them. They really should be banned from this river and other smaller ones. But the guides and local lodges would be up in arms. for sure.

As Saltron indicates in some western rivers the land owners run fences right across the river to prevent anglers floating through when they own both sides of the river and and the river bed. Not very friendly now is that. Probably have electronic detection systems also and then send the cowboys out after you. Could be ugly experience. Will let them have those waters. To many free american rivers to fish in one life time.


Last edited by pmflyfisher; 12-27-2001 at 09:31 AM.
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  #25  
Old 12-27-2001, 04:27 PM
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Hi Chaps
The thought of drifting down the Spey or Tay fishing as you go would make the film Deliverance seem like a Sunday School Picnic.:hehe:

Both systems seem to have there good and bad points I think that in our little country with our high population free fishing for all just would not work.

Malcolm
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  #26  
Old 12-27-2001, 04:48 PM
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Malcolm,

Good points, plus the British Isles have more experience in torture techniques then us americans do. I would not want to try and float one of those european rivers.

Cheers,

Hal
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  #27  
Old 12-27-2001, 10:41 PM
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As I recall in Norway, Iceland, and other northern atlantic salmon regions they use long dory-like boats to work salmon rivers. This tradition is also common on North American rivers like the Miramichi, etc. The drift boat is as much a part of the pacific northwest's river culture as the anglers that fish them, few concepts are in perfect harmony like a glacial river and pulling oars; perhaps the flats boat and the Florida Keys.
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  #28  
Old 12-28-2001, 02:12 AM
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PM Flyfisher,

I would hardly be called a salmon fisherman, I don't think 10 days a year would qualify. Due to geographic location I am PMW steelheader first and foremost, apprentice salmon fishermen second. In spite of this, salmon fishing is a real treat, something I have permanently added to the yearly schedule!

Willie Gunn

I am very interested in making time to fish for springers on the Spey. A few years back I was on vacation during June and was able to fish for a few days on the Tay. Now I want to try for the best of the best!

Thanks,

William

Last edited by inland; 12-28-2001 at 02:14 AM.
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  #29  
Old 12-28-2001, 08:38 AM
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Well looks like there are some atlantic salmon fisherman or at least part time or those who want to be. Steelhead fly fishing is similar and many atlantic salmon flies can be used for steelhead and vice sa versa. I have been tying some atlantic salmon hair wings and speys this last week fishing which are starting to look pretty good.

[/COLOR] Perhaps we should consider an atlantic salmon fly swap ?

Those that are interested please respond to the new thread I started on this ?

I would love to see other custom or traditional patterns tied by forumn members. If I any one wants to do classic salmon patterns that is up to them but I am not to that level yet. Maybe another ten years.

Keep it to ten or so people max since I don't think I have the patience to do more than ten of them. Besides I have to start on my Michigan steelhead ties for the spring trip in March of course to the PM. Still looking for that 15 pounder + and March is when the big boys can be had, also they will have you very quickly, as has been the case in the past.
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  #30  
Old 12-28-2001, 08:43 AM
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I have been an atlantic salmon fisherman at heart for 30 years, maybe more. As a kid in Montreal I talked my father into taking me down to the St. Lawrence river on the rumor of a salmon here or there, to no avail. Moving to the US east coast I dreamed of going to New Brunswick, Newfoundland, Nova Scotia and read with great interest about the West Branch of the Penobscot in Maine (the last significant run of atlantics in America) before moving to Seattle, hence my own PNW experiences. Still I am an annual member of the Atlantic Salmon Federation and I am as driven to ensure the success of atlantic salmon recovery program as anyone.

I regularly visit the HQ in Concord NH to discuss the history and current status of the atlantic salmon recovery program in the once great Merrimac River, a river whose recovery is cut short by the Lawrence, Amoskeag and other dams . I have met and discussed the screening and diversion approaches being taken on the Connecticut River's salmon recovery program, an abysmal failure because no dams are being removed or effectively diverted along this mighty river.

Frankly I think part of the reason is the sad state of affairs that atlantic salmon fishing is in here in the US. Really sad. My zeal to learn more about the east coast salmon situation has been disheartening to say the least. We try to recover the runs without removing the reasons they have failed - the dams.

Moving north to Canada there is quite a celebration of AS fishing culture that is very close to it's European roots. We have some relationships with Canadian Maritimes guides and lodges that we should develop in 2002.

We are fortunate to have members like Willie Gunn who provides a direct contact and reference to the rivers where it all started. So much of what we do today has originated on the rivers of the British Isles.

Also, when we are steelheading I don't feel at all disconnected from AS fishing. These two universes are as parallel as any in our history. What was developed 400 years ago on the Spey helps us today on the Skykomish River in Washington; what is developed on Bainbridge Island across the sound from the Sky is throwing lines on the River Dee today in the 21st Century.

I enjoy tying the mixed wing classics in winter and these ages old techniques influence my modern steelhead flies. My spey flies are hardly different from the ones use on the namesake river ages ago.

I consider myself an atlantic salmon fisherman who has realized a lifelong desire to practice this passion on the availability of the pacific northwest species. In the process I have become a pacific northwest salmon / steelhead fisherman with a desire to fish the Spey someday, to visit the mecca as they say. And on the way I want to hit the Gaspe' and other Canadian maritime streams, to get myself ready for the ultimate AS experiences across the pond.

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