What's different? - Fly Fishing Forum
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  #1  
Old 09-07-2001, 07:12 AM
Roop Roop is offline
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What's different?

Think about the days when the tropical flats weren't over populated by guides and locals with their flats boats. When Lefty Kreh and Ted Williams were fishing areas and targeting species with a fly rod that nobody else was/ had. Their equipment according to todays standards was heavy and slow.
Fiberglass rods, Pflueger reels, no clear/ sink tip/ floating/ saltwater/ wind cutter tapers....

And the flies... I still have no idea if the right fly is the one that closely imitates, stimulates or stands out. But the flies have drastically changed since then as well.

So, my long-winded point is, (need to stop hanging out with solo penguins I guess), what's different with catching today's fish vs. the fish of 50 years ago?

Sure they have A LOT more pressure but I really have a hard time believing that a tarpon can only be caught today with a purple key's style cockroach, connected to a 25# fluoro tippet, thrown with a clear flats taper line, by a titanium rod with an anti-reverse reel VS. one 50 years ago having a streamer thrown at it, mono leader, glass rod, no drag reel.

Actually tarpon may not have been a good example, the big ones are pretty old aren't they?

Anyway, I guess my actual thought/ question is what do you think of the evolution of fly fishing equipment? Other than convenience, is it necessary?

I agree stealth helps, and I am as much an equipment slut as anyone else but, where do you draw the line? I think next time I'm fortunate enought to hit the tropics, I'm gonna try to duplicate the old school style. (After I've landed a nice tarpon on my T&T with a Billy Pate reel of course)

Roop
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  #2  
Old 09-07-2001, 08:20 AM
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Lefty Lefty is offline
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Roop,
If it counts as "equipment" our communications gear is having a huge effect on flyfishing. In particular the internet, secondly cell phones. Where else can a guy start flyfishing one sesaon and with in 2 or 3 seasons be tying beautiful flies and casting like a pro? And then there's the collective wisdom the net brings together for targeting various species. It's a brave new flyfishing world for sure. Some of that is negative too of course, and a lot of it is good.

LEfty
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  #3  
Old 09-07-2001, 08:34 AM
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To me the evolution is the salt of the experience. Among a few basic innovations much refinement occurs. This energy complements the actual fishing with many pleasant tinkering opportunities, especially in regions with cold winters.

I think there is a threshold though, and most flyfishermen can sense that line... too radical of a departure from the base of tradition is a step over the line. Everyone draws this line differently, but the majority are in a silent consensus.

The connection to the roots of flyfishing is just as strong as the want to innovate, and perhaps the most remarkable thing about flyfishing is this ability to move forward without losing it's past.

Makes me glad I am a flyfisher!
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Old 09-07-2001, 10:26 AM
Ishmeal Ishmeal is offline
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...Every time the airline industry has a "lay-off" another wave of "remarkably tallented" engineers find themselves with way too much free time...many are from the great NorthWest...
Soon they are re-designing their equipment and selling the high-tech creations to gear heads (like myself) who enjoy the feel and performance. The evolution of materials and technology lends itself to our passion...
"Classic stuff" is an art form unto itself...I have a Russ Peak rod that clearly demonstrates this notion. The "new stuff" is amazing and defines "state-of-the-art"...Whatever!? If Ted or Lefty could have gotten their hands on graphite/titanium I suspect they would have...Why not?! (mortgage payments, college tuition, and food not withstanding...)
The important thing is to enjoy your time on the water, be blown away by a noteworthy sunrise, share with friends, see things with youthful interpretation, and never take what you have for granted!
LET'S GO FISHING!
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  #5  
Old 09-07-2001, 10:52 AM
Roop Roop is offline
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All good points.

I recently got my hands on a 10 WT T&T Horizon Ė second hand Ė and canít believe the difference between it & my 9 wt St. Croix Legend Ultra. Iíll have to pull out my 11 year old LL Bean 11 weight guide series rod and compare it to that Ė should be interesting.

I just wonder what some of the fish Iíll be trying to catch tomorrow would be like to land on the gear of yesterday.

Back to work Ė no more waxxing poetic for me.

Letís rip some lips!!

Roop
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Old 09-07-2001, 04:57 PM
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Catering to the "gear" freak looking for the elusive "edge" is the focus of most manufacturers, whether it is for flyfishing, golf or mining machinery (my background). Most people assume they can compress the learning curve by substituting equipment for "clock time."

I have a friend that I introduced to flyfishing in March 2000. Since that time he has spent over $6,000 on equipment. Has it caught him more fish than the $200 RedStart outfit? Probably. He has the right tool for the species he is seeking, and is comfortable that it gives him the "edge." He still lacks "clock time," but maybe, maybe confidence in your equipment does give you a subtle "edge."

I guess I'm not a total believer in "going back in time." I don't intend to use the Sheakespeare fiberglass rod that I got when I was 12, but I still enjoy using a bamboo rod once a year during the sulphur hatch.

I can't wait to try Sage's replacements for the SPL and SP series.
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Old 09-08-2001, 06:28 AM
FishHawk FishHawk is offline
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The fishery has changed from th old days a lot of smaller fish in range of the flyfisherman. The new gear is a factor also. What I have learned from all this gear stuff is that you should get the best possible equipment that your budget will allow. Having had trouble with*a reel that has failed is no picnic. It seems to fail when you need it the most. Also, be willing to try new techniques. The early steelheaders where the*pioneers in developing shooting head ect.
FishHawk
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Old 09-08-2001, 07:50 AM
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Roop,
What do you mean about the T+T being different than your St. Croix UL? Better? Or just different?

Leftoid
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Old 09-08-2001, 10:16 AM
Eddie Eddie is offline
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This reminds me of the debate raging in golf."The new gear is trouncing the old courses! How can we compare our achievements to the past champions?" Meanwhile, average handicaps have hardly improved. Ability is still important, thankfully.
If you read Russel Chathams "Anglers Coast", you'd pick the old days over new gear in a heart beat.
I think that the most significant improvement in fly fishing has been the advent of breathable waders(maybe plastic flylines). Dry and comfortable all day would have been hard to imagine seven years ago. That changes the experiance significantly.
Modern fly lines do most of the work for you. one can throw a fly almost forty feet with out a rod.
Here's a mind twister...I think that the fish are different in some places. I think that introduced species in the Seiras and the Rockies, when first introduced, chowed on the native chubs, frogs and such, and grew huge. Look at the old pictures. People are not catching fish like that today.
The new rods are a pleasure to cast, but to quote a Japanese angler,"Graphite rods are like pornography. They get the job done...but they have no redeeming value." It is awsome to see what a competitive caster can do with a 45 year old Winston bamboo or a 35 year old glass rod.Very humbling indeed.
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Old 09-08-2001, 12:38 PM
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How true Eddie. We had steak tips BTW, not swordfish
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Old 09-09-2001, 06:38 AM
Roop Roop is offline
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Eddie - I like your thoughts - especially the Japanese fishermen quote, it makes you think.

Terry - The T&T feels like it's about 1/2 the weight, I still don't have the casting stroke down but I do know that you can very successfully under-line it. I used my 9 weight intermediate on it for the flats yesterday and was very pleased.

Outside of the gear issue, do you think the fish have changed?Other than eating up the local prey when introduced (good point Eddie). I ran into some pretty finicky stripers yesterday, a few in the Nautilus class followned my fly all the way up to the rod tip. I'm pretty sure tha after spotting me they ran home to change their drawers!!

Look at the littoral society reports, same fish caught in the same areas or several times a year.

Do fish learn from being caught?

Roop
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Old 09-09-2001, 11:05 AM
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Jeff, The Scott Eclips is even lighter for a ten weight and the Winston Bl-5 9 wt can be cast all day like a 6 wt. That makes a big difference for me since I fish from Shore mostly.
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Old 09-09-2001, 02:02 PM
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MarkDoogue MarkDoogue is offline
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Well,

I was thinking about selling my antique, bamboo fly rod and taking the cash and buying a Pungo. Now I don't know what to do...

J.D.
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Old 09-09-2001, 02:23 PM
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Jim, That would be a big mistake... you will regret it later.
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Old 09-09-2001, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
striblue (09-09-2001 03:23 p.m.):
Jim, That would be a big mistake... you will regret it later.
Thanks for the advice John. I've had an Edwards 8 1/2', 4 1/4 oz., "Hunter Special" gathering dust for about 20 years. It has never been used and even has the original wrap on the grip. Took said rod to a fishing show for an estimated value and had a man named Hoagie Carmicheal Jr.(sp.) take it out of my hand and wouldn't give it back until I took his card with his home phone # and a promise to give him a call if and when I was ready to sell it. That was a long time ago, the card has long since disappeared, and hopefully Mr. H.C. is still alive and healthy.


Maybe I'll post it on E-Bay with a high reserve, see what an auction would bring, and then make my decision. Who knows but the rod might not be worth the price of the knife I carry.


Jim D..... and me son just called and said my nephew just caught a keeper off his boat at the dock in Quincy. The lawn can wait.
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