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Old 07-29-2008, 09:41 AM
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Scierra TX2 reel opinions ?

What are your opinions on these reels? Where are they manufactured ?


Lee
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Old 07-29-2008, 09:52 AM
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Thumbs down

Scierra are outsourced to Asia I believe but in case no one has noticed it does not take long before the cheap crap becomes quality / value (rods, electronics, cars, reels?)

I remain un-moved (not even by one millimeter) from the marvels of Swedish CNC technology and aesthetics in my working man's budget (i.e. Danielsson) and others are even more adamant than I but I am sure the problems we see with such products will be forgotten in the years to come.

Aside from all that - I could not live with a drag adjustment on the outer rim of the spool. My educated palm would be lobotomized with a hot fish on the run.
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Old 07-30-2008, 04:45 PM
JR SPEY JR SPEY is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juro
Scierra are outsourced to Asia I believe but in case no one has noticed it does not take long before the cheap crap becomes quality / value (rods, electronics, cars, reels?)

I remain un-moved (not even by one millimeter) from the marvels of Swedish CNC technology and aesthetics in my working man's budget (i.e. Danielsson) and others are even more adamant than I but I am sure the problems we see with such products will be forgotten in the years to come.

Aside from all that - I could not live with a drag adjustment on the outer rim of the spool. My educated palm would be lobotomized with a hot fish on the run.
I have to tell you, Juro, that without the red thumbs down symbol, I'm not sure I would have known how you stood about these. Your normally articulate posts didn't come through as clearly this time, at least to me. These reels are designed in Denmark and machined in Korea. They are extremely well done. I agree that the drag knob can be unsettling for someone who has spent years with a more standard knob. However, the exact same reel is available with a normal drag knob and is known as the CTC. The finish is a very handsome smoke grey instead of the glossy blue, but the parts are interchangeable with the TX2. I used both on my recent trip to Chatham and have also used them at Harker's Island, Belize, and the lower Keys. I've yet to come up with a single problem with the reel other than that drag knob, which many people do like. I had trouble with my clothing changing the drag setting when doing a two-handed strip while at Chatham. However, I think that would be a problem only when doing that kind of stripping, which is rarely used outside of the Northeast. The Danielsson designed Loop HiTec (#1-#5) reels had an almost identical drag knob so it's not exactly a totally new idea. Prices are also well below Danielsson by the time you figure all the importation costs. Truthfully, at the exact same price I'd probably choose a Danielsson over the Scierra, but the Scierra is a good enough reel that anyone unwilling to pay the cost of a Danielsson would be very happy with either Scierra.
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Old 07-30-2008, 08:22 PM
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That was a very well written and insightfull review.
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Old 07-30-2008, 08:41 PM
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FYI - The thumbs down as an errant click from my crackberry.
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Old 07-30-2008, 08:49 PM
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JR Spey,

Does the Scierra reel have sealed drag? Otherwise it has to be well soaked with a fresh water after being exposed to salt water.
Only time will time how well the reel is design, as more users will use it is a different conditions, including dunking the reel in the river, when unhooking a fish, what often cause the reel to hydroplaned, plus the open drag will collect a small particle which will effect a future performance of the reel.
Obviously this won't matter when targeting a trout, but may be important with a hot, heavy fish on the run.

ZB
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Old 07-31-2008, 08:28 AM
JR SPEY JR SPEY is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by salmo
JR Spey,

Does the Scierra reel have sealed drag?

ZB
Well, Salmo, we've had this discussion before. I know you disagree with me on this, but I'm going to state it again. Any reel where the user can access the clutch/drag mechanism is not truly a sealed reel. At best, it should be considered semi-sealed. To that degree, the Scierra is as much of a sealed system as the Danielssons. There is no exposed drag or clutch parts when the spool is removed. The one-way bearing is sealed separately from the drag which is different than on the Danielsson, but I believe both are as well sealed as can be when the design allows the owner to be able to access it when necessary. I've used my two Scierras quite a bit over the last year and have done nothing more than just rinse them down after trips and there hasn't been any issue so far, and I doubt there will be. The Scierra's design also makes conversion from LH/RH much easier. Again, I have a great deal of respect for the Danielsson design, but I also feel Scierra got it right, too, and at a very attractive price. The only fly reels that I'm aware of that are truly sealed are the Charlton/Makos, and that's in a completely different price category.
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Old 07-31-2008, 09:12 AM
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Why you think Danielsson is semi-sealed and Charlton, is fully sealed ? I have to look at this one, as it looks very interesting and I have no doubt it is a fantastic peace of art.

Since I have not seen Mako, I would appreciate if you could explain briefly how the reel is sealed. Do they use o-rings or molded seals or different approach. As you know seals made out of elastomers like “Viton” or “FETFE”, which materials are extremely chemically resistant ( acids, bases, different solvents) can be additionally reinforced so that final product is also abrasion resistant.

In the case of Danielsson without disassembling it, the users can not access either clutch/drag system, which is protected by multiple o-rings and molded seals. To access the drag/clutch, the drag knob with o-ring has to removed, center screw with o-ring has to be unscrewed , the spool holding cap, which contains o-ring has to be unscrewed. The same, easy procedure is used to change the L/R direction.

Some time ago, when I bought my first Danielsson with Loop logo reel ( HD) , just for curiosity I have dropped the reel into 30 feet of water for about 30 minutes with no sign of water inside the drag/bearing chamber.

The sealing system on Controls is even better then LW or HD.

Again just curious how Mako is designed/sealed.


Regarding Scierra reel, if the reel is dunk, is the drag surface exposed to the water.

As far as sealed and semi-sealed definition, the most important is that truly sealed drag/bearing system is that which can NOT be penetrated by water or dust in any normal fishing conditions, without external intervention., and of course will prove itself during the most demanding tasks over a certain period of time.

Last edited by salmo; 07-31-2008 at 09:30 AM.
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Old 07-31-2008, 02:09 PM
JR SPEY JR SPEY is offline
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First of all, if I state that the Scierra is sealed as well as a Danielsson, then that means that under normal circumstances no water would reach the drag if the reel is dunked.

As I stated in my last post, the difference between a sealed drag and a semi-sealed drag (to me) is the ability of the user to open up the sealed compartment and therefore possibly mess up the sealed feature. You state that the Danielsson is a complete seal if it is not disassembled, but that is my point exactly. Whether Danielsson or Scierra, once a user gets into the components there is no guarantee of a seal after that. One would hope that a person could follow an exploded parts diagram and get it reassembled correctly, but I've seem many, many cases where that just isn't the case.

The Charlton/Mako is sealed in such as way as to make it impossible for the user to access it. Jack is a little coy about exactly what material he uses, but I've been using his reels since 1994 and have sold a lot of them since that time and I've never heard of a seal failure on one. All seals will fail with time, but fifteen years or so is pretty good in anyone's department. I'm going to see if I can't get a little more detail from Jack, but I've read virtually all his literature since the 1997 conversion to carbon fibre and the sealed system and he never gets technical about it. This is from his current website:

Considering the applications of the modern fly reel, specifically, salt water fly-fishing, it was imperative the reel be absolutely sealed from the elements. To meet these requirements I drew from my experience in flight control hydraulics to create a reel sealed like the pumps on jet aircraft. No water, sand, salt or other contamination was allowed to ruin the performance of the product. With a reel having its sophisticated mechanisms sealed, the angler does not have to lube or clean drag materials during an expensive fishing excursion.

Again, this thread is really about Scierra reels so I'd like to redirect it by restating what I said earlier. I test a lot of reels over the years. I choose to sell what I think is superb equipment for the price asked. The TX2/CTC series is very well thought out and executed from what I've been able to determine and is as good of product as any reel in this $300-400 price range and better than many. I wouldn't blame anyone who has an extra C-note available for moving into a Danielsson, but, I really don't think anyone would be disappointed with a Scierra.
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Old 08-02-2008, 09:57 PM
sazan sazan is offline
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Whether Danielsson or Scierra, once a user gets into the components there is no guarantee of a seal after that. One would hope that a person could follow an exploded parts diagram and get it reassembled correctly, but I've seem many, many cases where that just isn't the case.



Your argument is weak. I have been using Danielsson for a few years and unless someone bought the reel with the wrong retrieve direction there is no need to open it !!!!!, as the reel is maintenance free.

If someone is curious how the drag is constructed or needs to change the retrieve direction there is probably no other reel which allows one to perform this operation so easily with minimal mechanical knowledge. However, if someone is mechanically impaired to such an extent that he is not able to remove a few screws, flip the drag package or align the cup spring (only one position allows for it), then he should ask a friend for help.

As it was stated before, after prolonged use an inexpensive seal has to be changed due to mechanical interaction with metal parts. The Danielsson reel can be serviced within a few minutes by the owner. The o-rings can be bought in any specialized hardware store.

So I don’t see any advantage of having the drag package which can be only serviced by the manufacturer.

When I visit my friends in Norway, a majority of fly-fishers use Danielsson reels while fishing for Atlantic Salmon, (which can be very large and hot when on the run).
No to many use Scierra reels...........
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Old 08-03-2008, 08:58 AM
JR SPEY JR SPEY is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sazan
Whether Danielsson or Scierra, once a user gets into the components there is no guarantee of a seal after that. One would hope that a person could follow an exploded parts diagram and get it reassembled correctly, but I've seem many, many cases where that just isn't the case.



Your argument is weak. I have been using Danielsson for a few years and unless someone bought the reel with the wrong retrieve direction there is no need to open it !!!!!, as the reel is maintenance free.

If someone is curious how the drag is constructed or needs to change the retrieve direction there is probably no other reel which allows one to perform this operation so easily with minimal mechanical knowledge. However, if someone is mechanically impaired to such an extent that he is not able to remove a few screws, flip the drag package or align the cup spring (only one position allows for it), then he should ask a friend for help.

As it was stated before, after prolonged use an inexpensive seal has to be changed due to mechanical interaction with metal parts. The Danielsson reel can be serviced within a few minutes by the owner. The o-rings can be bought in any specialized hardware store.

So I donít see any advantage of having the drag package which can be only serviced by the manufacturer.

When I visit my friends in Norway, a majority of fly-fishers use Danielsson reels while fishing for Atlantic Salmon, (which can be very large and hot when on the run).
No to many use Scierra reels...........
Well, since I sell fly reels for a living, let me tell you that a lot of guys are too proud or stubborn to ask a friend for help. Besides, I believe it was Salmo who posted once that even the Danielssons need maintenance about once every for or five years. Salmo, correct me on this if I'm mistaken. I get reels back on a regular basis from guys who couldn't reassemble them correctly.

The key with the Charlton/Mako design is that it is so well done that it simply doesn't need maintenace.

As to your last comment on how many of your friends use each, that wouldn't, of course, have anything to do with the fact that the Danielssons they're using have been in the marketplace for about ten years and the current Scierras for less than two?

I'm amazed at how many Danielsson owners somehow think that only Danielsson has figured out how to create a good seal in a fly reel.
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Old 08-03-2008, 09:50 AM
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Back on a full sized keyboard, wow the new blackberry curve has the tiniest keyboard. It's like I need to grow fingernails just to use it. I liked my old 7130e better.

Sorry off topic...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JR SPEY
I'm amazed at how many Danielsson owners somehow think that only Danielsson has figured out how to create a good seal in a fly reel.
As a consumer I've owned a very long list of reels. From this list, it "is" the only one. I'm sure Charlton has nailed it too. If you feel Scierra has then I suppose with time we shall see but I can honestly not think of another but that's just me. Regardless, a drag adjustment on the outer diameter of a reel is something dreamt up by someone who does not catch hard-running fish and second only to a drag knob adjustment centered on the crank handle side of the reel. And that is questionable, since you can still palm the latter.

This was my reel buying timeline... and I specifically know of others who went through a very similar path (involving some of the same failed reels):

- buy bargain reel, killed by salt
- buy better open mechanism reel, deal with "joys" of salt water maintenance
- buy "sealed" pop-off o-ring reel, killed by salt
- buy several other "sealed" reels, some with unreachable components, killed by salt
- buy Danielsson...

live like the "Maytag man" while enjoying premium performance and aesthetics

that was about 10 years ago. And yes, I easily flipped the retrieve myself and no, I have had zero problems. It's been a Godsend.

I would experiment with more reels, but it's hard to bother - which could be another reason Danielsson owners think it's the end-all sealed drag. In conclusion, the reason is most likely that we have gone through a list of "sealed" drags that have failed already and there is no need to look further until the Mako is in the budget.

.02
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Old 08-03-2008, 10:22 AM
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Jr. Spey:

Let’s not go along the path of presidential campaigns, by taking words out of the context.

What I sad is that if someone as meticulous/paranoiac about his reel, like myself, can change a couple dollars worth seal/s every 4-5 years with in a few minuts, what is not necessaryy. Owners of Danielsson reels have not been changing seals in theirs since they has bought and few on this board stated that theirs reels has not been serviced for 10 year or so .

This is why I have mentioned about advanced elastomers ( "rubber"), fully resistance to the most corrosive chemical ( which are not even present in fishing environment) the seals are made of to point about to the seal durability. As a person who has been dealing with fly reels for so long you should be aware of that !!!

Those materials ( seals, o-rings) are available to all reel manufacturers and the key is not material but how the sealing is designed.

Both Jack Charlton and Danielsson have designed extremely effective sealing solution which has been proven for years !!!!!!!!!



Clearly ANY sealed reel has to have seals to prevent water form getting inside, they have to move.

As you said " All seals will fail with time, but fifteen years or so is pretty good in anyone's department."

I agree with you 100%, that after 15 year or so they moving, inexpensive " rubber" parts may need to by changed, probably in the case of very active fly-fisher only ( like car tires won't last 300,000 miles). Clearly the point was made that quality of the reel's sealing system should not be judged based on owner's ability to open it.
This is tantamount to saying that this car is better hen other because the hood can be only open be authorized deals service..........There have be other reasons then that...

Of course we can argue forever that someone who doesn’t know what he/she is doing may have a smaller chance to mass up its reel using Charlton, but the question is should most of the fly-fishers make their decision base of small % of cases where people can’t control what they are doing. Those people should for example not used salt water backing, as low diameter line can into a finger, etc, etc……

On the different note, since many complain that Danielsson can be only purchased from Sweden, any possibility to step up and sell Danielsson via just-reels.com? You sell some models made outside US ( Asia, Europe) so I guess US tariff is probably not an issue.
It would really be very helpful to US fly-fishers.
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Old 08-03-2008, 11:22 AM
JR SPEY JR SPEY is offline
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Since my memory isn't perfect, that is why I asked you to step in if I had remembered your post from a year or more ago incorrectly. I wasn't trying to take anything out of context.

The truth is I've had a couple of e-mails warning me that to try and set this whole thing straight isn't worth the bother, and those guys are turning out to be right. There's just a defense mechanism in some Danielsson owners that will not allow virtually any other reel to be mentioned in the same breath without being backed into a corner.

The truth is that Danielsson burned a lot of bridges a few years ago, and I doubt they'll have much success trying to establish a dealership network in the US. However, the biggest reason, but far, is that by doing so they'd have to crank the retail prices back up to where they were, or at least fairly close, and those prices wouldn't fly today after spending several years where they've been. The dealer margins have to come from somewhere and I doubt there's much room in the present pricing structure to cover dealer margins. Frankly, if there is enough room then the buyers over the last couple of years have been overcharged. After all, pricing is what essentially brought about the split between Danielsson and Loop. I was a Loop dealer at that time and the truth was their prices were so high that they were tough to sell. Loop wanted to solve that by moving production to Korea, while Danielsson didn't want that at all and brought down prices by eliminating the dealers after the split. While I respect, even admire, them for the fact that they didn't want to have their reels made in Asia, they have managed to paint themselves into a corner as far as pricing goes. I wish them well as a company, I really do, but I can't imagine they'll find very many willing dealers. The truth is, Loop is having the same problem for different reasons.

I'll step down now as I've already devoted too many words to this subject.
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Old 08-03-2008, 12:16 PM
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Thanks for the response. My post was aimed to clarified what I said and put some technical prospective. The reason why we discuss the subject is to explain our point in details rather then making a general statement not particularly useful for someone who seeks the real answer to what make a specific reel reliable .

Your argument about pricing is valid only to some extend.

"they have managed to paint themselves into a corner as far as pricing goes. I wish them well as a company, I really do, but I can't imagine they'll find very many willing dealers. The truth is, Loop is having the same problem for different reasons."

if you look at http://www.danielsson-flyreels.se/in...onellt&lang=en

there are 70 dealers in Europe, and the price in Euro, excluding ( 19% Value Added Tax) went up since 2004 went up ca. 20%, in line with other manufactures.

The reason why official US price is back near the level of old prices is a collapse of US currency against all major European currencies ( 40% drop by average).

If US currency were at 2002--2004 level, then I guess Danielson could offer discount to dealers, without rising prices in USD, and still bring ( after exchange from USD to SEK) the same amount of SEK they bring now.

The only time they will be able to establish a dealership network in US when USD will recover.

I have nothing more to say.

Take Care,

ZB

P.S.

I will post in the near future a few photos of two Saracione Trout reels with a clicker I am waiting for. The reels will fit perfectly Kerry Burkheimer's SH trout rods for Colorado/Wyoming/Montana were we are moving permanently this fall.

However for commando type, multi-weeks fishing, in remote Alaska for large rainbows, silvers , Saracione will stay home and I will take Danielsson ( LW 6-7 , 4-7 or HD 9-13 for Kings) which have never failed me during the last 7 years, dust, rain, water, you name it.
The only other reel I would take to remote Alaska is Charlton.

So often, I have to rely on drag when hot 25"+ rainbow or big silver is on the ran and I have to use my second hand to support myself when wading often is somewhat extreme conditions or claim the bank ( I fish exclusively from banks, gravel bars and use jet as a mean of transposition only).
May be fishing conditions I am use to are extreme, but ...........
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