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Old 02-16-2008, 04:12 PM
FishHawk FishHawk is offline
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Red Hooks

Went to the Bass Pro Shop to gets some hooks and noticed a lot of red colored hooks. They must work because there were a lot of them . Seems the info on the hook is that it is invisible underwater or so I'm told. What do you guys think of this? Perhaps we should tie up some red hook Deep Eels.
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Old 02-16-2008, 05:10 PM
GMflyfish GMflyfish is offline
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I've used the red hooks (Daiichi makes some) in small size 20 and 22 to tie midge pupae and annelids for fishing the San Juan river in New Mexico, with some success. And I have seen fish caught there on just this bare red hook.
I seriously doubt that the hook is "invisible" to fish. Red colors are attenuated when viewed through increasing thickness of water, but the change to a gray or black color would not make the hook invisible.
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Old 02-16-2008, 05:19 PM
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GM is right on that. The deeper tha color red goes down the result is a change. I think someone who can gives us a description of the spectrum can be more detailed. But this is my understanding and the reason that , or one of the reasons for lighter colored flies in day... the yellow and chartruse for example retain color at the depths that red does not. This may have some of the thinking on using the hooks that color. Anyway, as a side note... I was waiting for the hooks to come in various colors as a so called marketing issue. "OOOhhh, I like that color better" and tyers starting to match hook color with fly material color...it's coming.
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Old 02-16-2008, 07:08 PM
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Heres my take on the matter, it`s all advertising bull. Red is the first color of the spectrum to fade as water depth increases, this does not mean that it becomes invisible, simply the red appears black. It is not much of a spin on things for a Madison Ave ad man to translate fades to invisable. If it`s not the same refractive index and clear then somthing can be seen. I don`t buy it!
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Old 02-16-2008, 08:08 PM
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I'm not aware of any fly shops stocking, or internet discussions on using red hooks for tying flies. The preceding gents are spot on in their narratives on this issue. It is more PR than empirical/objective evidence that it gives you an edge.

Bill, got to ask the question...why were you in a Bass Pro Shop? Are you going to the darkside?
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Old 02-16-2008, 09:24 PM
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Watch out Jim..... we don`t want to get me started on a rant!
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Old 02-17-2008, 08:34 AM
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Jim I went there to get a special Gammy Hook. The closest I'll come to the dark side is fishing the Canal with some of our esteemed colleagues .
Why, I might even attend a Spey Casting Event over there. Try it you'll like it. FishHawk
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Old 02-17-2008, 08:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FishHawk
Jim I went there to get a special Gammy Hook. The closest I'll come to the dark side is fishing the Canal with some of our esteemed colleagues .
Why, I might event attend a Spey Casting Event over there. Try it you'll like it. FishHawk
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Old 02-17-2008, 09:54 AM
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Back when I fished the dark side alot for large mouths I read this book.
Bass Fishing Facts: An Angler's Guide to Bass Lifestyles and Behavior
By Larry Larsen
It has a great section on the Largemouth's eyes and their color perception abilities. Whether this transfers over to Stripers or not remains to be seen. You can read this section of the book by doing a google book search. Its worth the read.
Larry
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Old 02-17-2008, 10:24 AM
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Larry, I think the correct name of the author of that book is Gary Larson??? Right?
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Old 02-17-2008, 11:47 AM
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The Fisherman's Ocean by Dr. David Ross also has a rather extensive section on light in the ocean.

Sean
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Old 02-17-2008, 12:09 PM
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All Colors become Invisible!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slinger
... Red is the first color of the spectrum to fade as water depth increases, this does not mean that it becomes invisible, simply the red appears black. It is not much of a spin on things for a Madison Ave ad man to translate fades to invisable. If it`s not the same refractive index and clear then somthing can be seen.
Slinger is dead on! w/ respect to explanation and "Marketing" spin...

The same thing happens to all colors... I'm a scuba diver and in those circles the effect of depth on color is a well known and important factor. I don't remember the exact depth at which Red begins to appear black but its around 30' and by 100' or a little deeper its totally black. If you recall high school science the visible spectrum of light starts w/ Red and then progress to Orange, Yellow, Green, Blue, and Violet... Red fades to black first, then a little deeper orange fades, then yellow, green, blue, purple in progressively deeper water... If the marketing folks were right then "Invisible" applies to all colors...

All that said... I think there is a plausible market for red hooks and its not invisibility. If you turn your flashlight on at 100' you can see "red" and other early spectrum colors, if they exists... for example on your wetsuit... The neat thing is that nature knows this and few creatures that inhabit the depths have any of those colors... The vast majority of the creatures from the deeps are Blue and Black, and Silver.

So, for 99% of all flyfishing , and light spin/cast fishing, we are fishing depths of <30' which means all the colors visible. So your red hooks and red lines are most definitely visible; but, you still catch fish on them. Why??? Because the red is imitating something that appeals to the fish. I use red plastic worm hooks for bass & pike for example because the red hook adds a "Blood" appearance to the bait, and the fish love it!!!... In some trout and salmon waters, a bare size 16 hook is a perfect midge larvae imitation... So effective, in many watersheds fishing a bare red hook is illegal.

When your are tying flies its easy to use red materials to add the appearance of gills, blood, or other natural red occurring features. I have purchased some red hooks to experiment w/ on fly patterns; but, to be honest, other than the midge larvae or san juan worm I'm struggling to come up w/ patterns where the red hook would be a great advantage... I guess I'll continue to leave the red hooks to spinnerbait trailers, spinner/spoon trebles, and plastic worms.
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Old 02-17-2008, 03:49 PM
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I do most of my flyfishing in water < 30' and red works for me after dark. It also works under bright sun in the eel grass. I don't know why. I just know that it does.

Clam worms come in various shades between pale tan through olives, pinks, oranges to deep blood red. In fresh water midge larvae are blood red or olive. I've found crayfish with shades of bright blue and vivid orange in fresh air that looked the color of mud under water.

I won't be buying red hooks any time soon, but a red hook on a worm pattern wouldn't be out of place.
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Old 02-17-2008, 04:25 PM
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Red Hooks that deliver

Personally, the Red Hooks I've found most effective are their ESBs, but their Hefe-Weizens aren't bad either.
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Old 02-18-2008, 11:14 AM
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Thumbs up poor spelling, bad typing, or Freudian slip

Quote:
Originally Posted by striblue
Larry, I think the correct name of the author of that book is Gary Larson??? Right?
You got that right it is Gary.
Larry
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