Head Cement - Fly Fishing Forum
>> Archive: Salmon & Steelhead Flies Spey flies to mixed wings, new innovations

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-29-2006, 09:31 PM
Markus Markus is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Catskills & Gaspe
Posts: 14
Question Head Cement

Dear all;

I have been a silent groupie of this forum for some time. I am slowly transitioning from trout fishing into salmon fishing and I have started to tie some salmon flies of my own.

One thing I have been wondering about is what kind of head cement do you use for your flies. What creates the glossy heads, epoxy?

Let me know...

Markus
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old 12-30-2006, 12:06 AM
flytyer flytyer is offline
Pullin' Thread
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: NW Washington
Posts: 3,346
Markus,

Very few salmon fly tyers use epoxy to finish the head. What most of us use is mutltiple coats of our favorite head cement applied one after the other after each prior coat had dried. Some tyers like to use Sally Hansen's Hard-as-Nails clear nail polish (a nylon-based coating) applied with a bodkin. And some like to use clear polyurethane. I have a personal preference for Rumph's Head Cement because it is medium viscosity right out of the bottle and if you want a thinner cement, simply thin it with a little of Rumph's Head Cement Thinner. If you want it a little thicker, leave the cap off overnight and it will thicken just enough to be a bit more high build.

There are other head cements out there that are identical to Rumph's all you need do is look for a medium viscosity one. Avoid the really thin ones such as Griffin thin simply because they are so watery that they require as many as 10 coats to get a good, glossy head.

I've also used Veniard's Cellaire with good results, although it takes more coats since it is very thin and pretty watery. However, it does give one a very nice, hard, glossy head with enough coats. Another one I've used with good results is Loon's Hard Head cement, which is a high build, high viscosity polyurethane.

Truthfully, use whatever cement you use as a general tying cement applying multiple coats until all the thread windings are completely covered and the head is smooth. One thing I would avoid is Flexament and other similar flexible cements because it is too soft to produce a nice hard head. Yes, it makes a glossy head with only two coats; but its softness is not conducive to durability.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3  
Old 12-30-2006, 09:54 AM
Markus Markus is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Catskills & Gaspe
Posts: 14
Flytyer;

Thank you so much!

I have been using flexament, which has been my problem. The heads are too soft and not durable.

I will try your recommendations.

Markus
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4  
Old 01-03-2007, 10:19 AM
Igor Igor is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 100
Markus,

I think the key to a glossy smooth head isn't dependant so much on the head cement and number of coats you use - but rather in the head you actually 'construct 'before you apply the cement.

A lumpy, ill-tied, head will generally remain a lumpy, ill-tied, head no matter what cement you use or how many coats you apply.

For the record I use multiple (3 to 4) coats of Veniard's "CELLIRE" No. 1 Clear to varnish my head - and I allow at 24 hours drying time between coats.

Igor
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5  
Old 01-03-2007, 11:00 AM
SALMONCHASER's Avatar
SALMONCHASER SALMONCHASER is offline
Spey'd and lovin it!!!
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Eastern Salmon rivers
Posts: 92
Good point Igor.
Alot of guys get caught up in trying to make the perfect small head, etc. The head does not have to be small, or perfect for that matter. It should however be as neat as possible with each turn of the bobbin nice and tight. I see alot of guys trying to build the "bullet' head with too steep of a gradiant and the whole thing is just a loose mess. Strive for neatness, not perfection at first.
Salmon Chaser
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6  
Old 01-03-2007, 11:23 AM
Igor Igor is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by SALMONCHASER
Good point Igor.
Alot of guys get caught up in trying to make the perfect small head, etc. The head does not have to be small, or perfect for that matter. It should however be as neat as possible with each turn of the bobbin nice and tight. I see alot of guys trying to build the "bullet' head with too steep of a gradiant and the whole thing is just a loose mess. Strive for neatness, not perfection at first.
Salmon Chaser
Hey, don't get me wrong - I love a small perfect head on most of my flies and strive for such! Although, I'm not as anal about it as I used to be. *g*

To me, the hallmark of a well-dressed fly is a very neat and proportionate head. I've seen gorgeous tying ruined because of a lack of attention to the head - conversely, I've seen otherwise mediocre tying appear to be just a little better because extra care was taken in building and finishing a good head.

If you look at the work of truly great tyers, for example Syd Glasso, their work was always 'autographed' with an insanely neat, small, and glossy head.

And, to those that say, 'Well, the fish don't care.', I say (tongue in cheek), 'Perhaps it's the tyer that doesn't care.'

Igor
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7  
Old 01-20-2007, 11:01 PM
Markus Markus is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Catskills & Gaspe
Posts: 14
Gentlemen;

I owe you an update. I tried three different head cements:

1. Hard as Hull (Backcountry Laboratories)
2. Rumpf's Head Cement
3. Veniard's Cellire No. 1 Clear

"Veniard's Cellire" is the clear winner for me. It appears to have just the right viscosity and it creates heads with a beautiful shine.

"Rumpf's Head Cement" is a close second, but requires thinning more often.

"Hard as Hull" is too thick and the dispenser is a nuisance.

Best,
Markus
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8  
Old 01-21-2007, 06:47 AM
Igor Igor is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 100
Markus,

I'm glad you found a head cement you're comfortable working with.

One of the problems I first encountered when working with Cellire was 'puckering' or 'pruning'. It's a 'wrinkling' of the head that results in applying subsequent coats of cement without allowing the prior coat to dry completely.

As I mentioned before, I'll usually wait 24 hours for each application to dry.

Igor
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9  
Old 02-03-2007, 11:50 AM
Feiger's Avatar
Feiger Feiger is offline
cast,mend,stumble,swear..
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Deschutes, John Day, Grande Rhonde, Salmon Rivers
Posts: 168
I like using the Griffith's thin as an intermediate cement during construction. Such as when hackles or wings are being secured. Helps me keep my wraps down, and the thin, watery consistency doesn't build up bulk, yet helps to lock the material in. I also find myself putting one coat of the thin on the head when I'm done/ probably not needed, but i think it further helps lock everything in. I damn near cry when I loose wings on one of my fishing flies...

for the last few years, had been using Griffith's thick to get the nice, smooth glossy heads. as of late, however, I've had problems of milky or yellowing finishes. Can't figure out why. will have to try some of the other brands listed.

On a note w/ Loon's hard head cement. have not had good success w/ that product. doesn't seem very durable in fishing situations, the flies I've tied w/ it invariably end up w/ a chipped and ultimately dissappearing finish....
__________________
Tie One On, and Tie Into One!!!
Feiger
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Fly Fishing Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Head Cement? uptrout Gear Talk - Fly Stuff Spoken Here 12 01-23-2005 05:28 PM
Head Cements dmas >> Archive: Salmon & Steelhead Flies 11 12-24-2004 03:55 PM
Special mix for head cement RayStachelek Stripers and Coastal Gamefish 6 01-22-2002 11:03 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:23 AM.



Copyright Flyfishingforum.com (All Rights Reserved)