ZEC AGREEMENTS - Page 3 - Fly Fishing Forum
Classic Atlantic Salmon No pursuit rivals salmon rivers, flies & legacy

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  #31  
Old 10-11-2006, 06:00 AM
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BASED ON FACTS

Morning Dave,

Just wanted to make clear, that I have done my homework.
The issue is here in Gaspé.

Sorry, but I get carried away seeing mis-leading information given to friends, clients and maybe future anglers of the Gaspé Penninsula.

Quote:
First, I was under the impression that the zecs (Gaspe and Pabos) would send out information regarding the agreement (ie number of rods, dates, and sectors) in with the draw card applications
The Pabos Zec again confirmed to me by phone yesterday that no deal, no agreement, there is nothing on paper for the moment, signed with any Outfitter concerning secured rods for 2007.

The Pabos river cottages are actually on my Outfitter’s license.



So, lets wait and see what happens before selling rods that are not secured yet!


Happy to read you had a great Summer!!

Best Regards,

Ann
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  #32  
Old 10-11-2006, 06:57 AM
wilson wilson is offline
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Salar-1, thanks I forgot about that, I often don't read those in as much detail as I should and I've only been thinking about the money for the past year or so. The reason I made that quantum leap to asking where the money is spent (other than the 3 beer buzz) is I just got to experience my dream this past year by living in the Pacific Northwest and it was a total bust.

While David Bishop was getting back to his roots I was finding out that the PNW wasn't what I thought it was going to be (for me at least). In addition to other issues I encountered fisheries have experienced a lot of habitat degredation and the fisheries managers seem only concerned with creating more smolts to prop up fisheries with declining runs of wild fish. In essence, using the river as a giant hatchery rearing station. I've heard some silly numbers thrown (billions) around the Columbia River valley and all they really have are declining runs of wild fish, increased smolt production, and more habitat encroachment. Additionally, nobody is really watching over the resource near as I could tell.

This year on a drive over to Gaspe I saw a clear cut up around Murdochville that was clearly in the York watershed. Couple that with the comfy ZEC office and shiney new salmon cleaning station out front and there are mixed messages. If you want to manage a kill fishery that's worth fighting over then the resource has to be healthy and whacking some prime forest in the watershed may not be the righteous path. Same goes with the Matapedia.

My question really stems from that experience. I have no doubt that they are all hard workers, but I'll look into those reports a bit more closely. I know we don't do the smolt thing, but I'm always concerned about the habitat any time I see a new cut or gravel pit up there.

As an aside, Bill Bakke at the Native Fish Society does some incredible work out West with regards to providing actionable things that anglers can do to express concern over their resource. The newsletter he provides is incredible; biologist reports, new laws, dam proposals, and funding, they cover the gamut to try and show what is happening out there. I honestly don't know where they get half of it. They were one of the shining lights I discovered in the PNW.

www.nativefishsociety.org

-Chris

PS. More wine, less whine!!!!
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  #33  
Old 10-11-2006, 11:05 AM
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Chris
If you're ever out in the PNW again I could fwd some contacts to ya. You'll have to be fly fishing and a 2 handed rod would help breaking the ice . How does EXCELLENT (at least this past summer) Steelhead fishing WITHIN 50 minutes of downtown of a large metropolis sound ?
Regarding your observations on the drive up to Gaspe.Try flying over it and looking down at the devastation , Look carefully at the ridgelines .They SHOULD have the occasional tree showing up here and there towering over other trees not the" cropped right to the inch clearcutting" that's almost hidden from view.
You can see all the individual trees showing up over the forest floor.
Cheers
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  #34  
Old 10-11-2006, 12:23 PM
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enquiring minds want to know

OK
Just WHO is that well hung individual in the right of the picture ???
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  #35  
Old 10-11-2006, 12:26 PM
wilson wilson is offline
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Thanks for the offer. I lived out there for 8 months starting last December and moved back to Maryland at the end of July. To be honest, I fished hard for 40+ days on several rivers and it wasn't all it cracked up to be; one Skagit River fish that was barely a "Gaspe Grilse". I'm not calling anyone a liar, but I didn't see a lot of fish, the river managers that actually catch fish at the hatchery and re-release them downstream to run upriver once again, jet boat drivers that'll think nothing of swamping you, all to find meth-addicts hanging around your car when you get back up the trail (if you even have a car by then). If I want to hook a bunch of hatchery Chambers Creek Steelhead I can head up to the GL and make that happen and be with people I know I can trust.

I'd seen enough come summer. The kicker was getting back to Gaspe to see the people and places I truly love took a red-eye + puddle jumper + more driving + 2k JUST TO GET THERE. Had I gone out west when I was 25 I may have stayed and lived the Steelhead bum lifestyle. The fisheries were different back then (I believe) but I have serious concerns about what is actually going on there. Now that I've been Gaspe-ified it'll be hard for me to put that much distance in between again. I'm happy learning to fly fish the ocean and taking my Steelhead trips when I can get them. I just don't want to have to look at what is going on every day.

To hopefully end this thread, you folks really have no idea what you have in Gaspe (Matapedia on East). It's beautiful country, awesome people, and an incredible resource. To me it is second to none and has really become my bolthole and a place where I can go and become "Chris" again after a long year in the lowlands. The reason I'm so adamant about protecting the resources is from what I've known and recently seen. As you all move forward in your lives, career and otherwise, keep that in mind that Gaspe has to be preserved because those beauties that lurk in her depths cannot be replaced.

-Chris
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  #36  
Old 10-11-2006, 01:11 PM
Venture Venture is offline
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Chris,

Very well put. I returned to the Gaspe after 25 years of fishing elsewhere. Yes, I had great fishing in Russia and Iceland. I also fish much saltwater here at home. But there is no place like home, and that is what the Gaspe feels like to me as I learned to fish salmon starting in 1970 on the Matane. And nothing rivals the Gaspe's beautiful rivers and its remote river valleys. Nothing rivals the folks living there. I was quite pleased that after 25 years, the places I loved were more or less the same. You cannot say the same for most places.

I can understand the passion of many people on this board fighting for their beliefs. Hopefully harmony will prevail, but first and foremost the salmon must live on.

Howie

P.S. I also got the chance a few years ago to venture into the Skagit area when my daughter went to school in Bellingham I fished the Sauk river, which flows into the Skagit. I hooked and landed a bright 15lb Steelie on my first day, on the first pool I fished which was accessable from a logging trail. Had also caught a nice dolly varden. Second day I hooked another Steelie and dropped it and had 2 dollys. That was my big Steelhead experience. Beautiful place those cascades, but I stayed away from the Skagit as I didn't like the looks of the river. The Sauk was much nicer and kinder to me.
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  #37  
Old 10-11-2006, 07:35 PM
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Chris
You TRUST those GL guys ???

You're obviously beyond help !
Cheers
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  #38  
Old 10-13-2006, 08:24 AM
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Chris
FISH CLEANING station ? What fish cleaning station?? Unless you're talking about that alter that was kindly built for us Druids to perform our Summer Solstice festifities ? My suspicions however arose when I GPS'd through the centreline only to find that it lined up directly in a easterly direction with another religion that I can't mention in a public venue! Rather forward thinking on the part of the ZEC office I thought !! Also just look carefully at the stainless steel .The design you see there is an ancient Druid religious inscription.Loosely translated it reads "p--- off unwholely ones " At least that's what my Celt dictionary says. All Religious persuations ,however ,ARE invited to pray at this alter, even the C&R evangelists.However the purists amongst them might be dismayed at the occasional sacrificial offering at the alter of a salmon or two. Pressure from the C&R fundamentalists HAS reduced the reduced the required 7 sacrificial offering to a couple or even one a year, becaudse when you DO come down to it fishing is a blood sport. Although the C&R Evangelical Church tried to set up a pulpit at the alter, they were refused, However they ARE most welcome I understand at the Golden Arches Church just across the river. The C&R fundamentalists have questioned the rather solid construction of this alter .Well the ZEC office did this for a reason. Try holding a Druid Winter Solstice ceremony in a winter Gaspe storm with a freezing wind blowing off the cold Atlantic. Come to think of it,I even remember one or two of the GL guys drinking some "Mead" at the alter !!
So there you are !A fish cleaning station it ain't
Cheers

Last edited by Salar-1; 10-13-2006 at 08:35 AM.
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  #39  
Old 10-13-2006, 08:50 AM
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I geuss to me it's not so funny to kill hundreds of large MSW salmon on the great Bonaventure then wonder what's up with salmon runs. I'm not from Canada but fish in your country extensively, and have been to Gaspe 3 times. Keep on whacking salmon and you can be like the US with no fishing!!! I go to Kola for multiple large Atlantics and I release them, not on any alter. I'm no C&R purist, I like to eat fish, but if you have a limited resource, do'nt be an ass about it, but hey, it's your resource, do to it what we did in the US and join me in Russia.

Tight Lines,

Jim Y
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  #40  
Old 10-13-2006, 11:47 AM
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Jim

Regarding the Bonnie.The zec office has re-sectorized the river in a very bold and courageous move. Analyse it carefully ,see what's been done and THEN make a comment about C&R. Oh and yes ,trust me I have already been crucified for my opinion in support of this decision. It was an equitable decision.Believe me the alternative(s) could have been a LOT worse.
oh and speaking of (my) ass I will never fly over Russia. My ass is just too precious . However You're very lucky to have the financial and personal freedom that allows you to go to the Kola and support a country and regime that is so kind to its journalists,armed service personnel,and travelling public .
Cheers
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  #41  
Old 10-13-2006, 12:02 PM
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You do not know what you are talking about Kola Salmon fishing, which is C&R and there numbers of fish are going through the roof. That does not matter, what matters is only you have the correct opinion period. Whack em stack em.

Tight Lines,

Jim Y
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  #42  
Old 10-13-2006, 02:08 PM
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Jim
You're right I'm "not know what I are talking about Kola Salmon fishing"
Let's see
.Fishing log SR '06
5 days on York during C&R period
2 days on Bonnie (early ) one fish bonked 6 0f 7 tags left
6 days on Matapedia all fish returned to river still got dem 6 tags left
1 day on Metis didn't fish but shecked out the river. GORGEOUS !!!! and some mighty fine people met !
return to Matapedia one Grilse returned to river .Damn !!! Still got them 6 tags left.
So what are we talking about ???? the fact that I PERSONALLY kept ONE fish this year ? I'll publically stand by that decision and believe you me it was a hard one that I agonised over during the 11 minutes of the fight and the five witnesses will attest to that fact ! It was probably the LAST non Grilse Atlantic that I'll ever kill .
Now that we've cleared (?) that up .We'll get back to the thread subject.
Since you've brought up the Bonnie .Read again the material on the re-sectorising and LOOK BETWEEN THE LINES and SEE WHAT'S THERE If you are ,as I suspect, ignorant of the river layout.
While we're on the thread subject
Bill
I've checked with Mdme Lise Laverite in Quebec Cite and she was unable to find under --
La Loi de Gestion de la Peche
plande gestion
1983 C. 39 a 62
62
63
64
--any allusion to the "pecking " order that you mentioned in that doityurselfers from outside la belle paye de Quebec are last and that outfriteres were where again? right after Qc. residents somewhere ?
Now then here's the fundamental truth the loi (law ) states that the especes animales (animal species) and stock reporoducteur (reproduction stock ) come first. Now
a recolt permissable pour chaque espece -----
means a permissable cull /taking of each species is allowed
cheers
PS :I'm off to return home and go to bed
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  #43  
Old 10-13-2006, 03:28 PM
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Lightbulb ZEC AGREEMENTS

OK,

First let me say.. I have more than 50 hours of work put in this week so this late post is on "My time"

I got my letter from Gaspe, It says that a meeting will be held during the week of October 9th to discuss the situation on outfitter rods (that would be this week). IT also states these discussions are about the Lower St Jean and York but doesn't mention the Dartmouth. Fine

It goes On to say that the results of the meeting will be posted on the website On October 2nd - My bet is that they missed a digit and it should be October 12 OR the 20th. That is plenty of tiem to submit electronic cards in the draw once we evaluate what has been added.

Perhaps Bill would like to enlighten us on the actual deal, weather or not it is in place for real and what we can expect to see when they post it on the web site. Since he is the recipient, He has no reason not to tell us.

He does indeed have a right to run a business and does provided needed jobs as I am sure you are all aware.
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  #44  
Old 10-13-2006, 06:47 PM
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Green Ghost:

Not goin' there. There are some super spies in Gaspe who can spill the bans if they choose but I am respecting the right of the zec to publish things. If you did not call them it is too late; everyone is in the woods moose hunting for the next 10 days.

Jim Y; right on the money.

I will say this from my perspective. Many of us here in the US fight as passionately as we do for C&R not because we "know better". We have screwed things up here pretty good and though we hope for miracles (ie Connecticut River) we have seen lots of money and effort yield little in return. Our greatest hope now is Maine and that will take time. We have dammed the rivers, destroyed spawning habitats, celar cut, generated pollutants, etc. It is too late in most cases. All we have left is what is North of us and though the waters are generally not "ours", we do care about what will happen in the future. As I have said before, all that we can do as anglers is put them back. We would love to tighten up logging restrictions, reduce the number of seals, mergansers, commorants, figure out what is happening at sea, etc but we cannot. The passion form many (including myself) is to ensure that the rivers will be healthy in the future and that mistakes of the past (many made here in the US) will not repeat themselves.

Bill Greiner
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  #45  
Old 10-15-2006, 04:55 AM
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Bill
I totally agree with your last paragraph ( An Internet first,SR/BS agreeing with BG )
May we hold you to that statement in the future??
Green Ghost
Before I leave the office here and fly outta town for some C%R Moose hunting.Would ya like me to post what's been done on the "Entente" so far ??
Not to worry ,send in yur cards for da draw. and let's hope the (as Bill mentioned) "the mistakes of the past will not repeat themselves"
Cheers
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