Flouro Carbon Tippets? - Fly Fishing Forum
Classic Atlantic Salmon No pursuit rivals salmon rivers, flies & legacy

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Old 08-07-2006, 04:58 PM
Venture Venture is offline
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Flouro Carbon Tippets?

I've heard, especially from this board, that most Atlantic Salmon anglers try to keep to tradition......and not use too many new sythetic materials mixed into, and dressing up their old patterns.

But how about flourocarbon leaders the new and much thinner monofilament tippet materials as opposed to the tried and true old stuff like Maxima? Some of these new tippet materials either allow you to fish heavy tests with much less diameter which perhaps may be a good thing especially when water levels drop during mid and late season..... Or perhaps flourocarbon, which doesn't reduce the diameter but claims to be ultimately invisable to the fish.

What's the concensus out there? Maxima? Flouro? or Rio ultra thin mono tippet......especially in the case of low water, tiny wets, and small dries?

Howie
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Old 08-07-2006, 11:58 PM
chromedome chromedome is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Venture
I've heard, especially from this board, that most Atlantic Salmon anglers try to keep to tradition......and not use too many new sythetic materials mixed into, and dressing up their old patterns.

But how about flourocarbon leaders the new and much thinner monofilament tippet materials as opposed to the tried and true old stuff like Maxima? Some of these new tippet materials either allow you to fish heavy tests with much less diameter which perhaps may be a good thing especially when water levels drop during mid and late season..... Or perhaps flourocarbon, which doesn't reduce the diameter but claims to be ultimately invisable to the fish.

What's the concensus out there? Maxima? Flouro? or Rio ultra thin mono tippet......especially in the case of low water, tiny wets, and small dries?

Howie
Howie,

I fish a lot for steelhead and feel compelled to use FC due to the leader shy nature of these fish. But in much of my fishing lack of abrasion resistance with FC is a problem I see all the time. Some steelheaders won't use it and some even use Maxima. For my own part I still feel better off with FC for the steelheading but this is almost entirely due to the leader shy nature of these fish. In Russia they were quite concerned about the abrasion aspect and on several occasions, the guide had me change the maxima tippet I was using. Alex, by the way, is not too fond of Maxima. He liked to use what I believe was a russian made product.
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Old 08-08-2006, 07:46 AM
JR SPEY JR SPEY is offline
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Chromedome,
That leadershyness depends on how you fish for them. Indie fishing requires fairly light tippets because of how the fly gets presented to the fish. If you swing flies for steelhead I find they aren't any more leadershy than Atlantics in similar type of water. To answer venture's question, I've found most guides, at least in Canada, still like Maxima. It is almost universally used on the rivers I fish. I have gone to clear Maxima when fishing ultra clear low water, but otherwise it's almost always the chameleon. I usually bring other stuff up there, including FC, but find I almost never use it.
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Old 08-08-2006, 09:02 AM
chromedome chromedome is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JR SPEY
Chromedome,
That leadershyness depends on how you fish for them. Indie fishing requires fairly light tippets because of how the fly gets presented to the fish. If you swing flies for steelhead I find they aren't any more leadershy than Atlantics in similar type of water.
I agree that if you're swinging, leader shyness is not as important. And I'm not experienced enough to speculate on the degree of importance. But I do know this. No one I know, and some of these guys are formidable and well known as accomplished steelheaders, ever goes with heavier than 0X when swinging. And nearly all of the regular "swingers" use FC.
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Old 08-08-2006, 10:14 AM
Venture Venture is offline
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Recently, I purchased some mono leader that was touted to be half the diameter of the regular mono tippet material of the test. This means when you need to swing or fish a #10 wet, or small dry, you can still use 8lb - 10lb test yet have a delicate diameter thread tied to your fly.....making it look better to me anyway.

I also worry about FC's ability to resist abrasion, along with the thick diameter of the line. I wish I could remember what brand that "skinny" mono tippet was or else I would post it. It was perhaps Rio or even Sci Angler. You would have to to to 5X Maxima to match the 10LB test of this new improved thin diameter mono.

Of coarse this is unimportant during early season, and in Russia because your swinging heavy irons in fast cold water. Maxima is perfect for that.....nice and stiff and abrasion resistant. But in the dog days of low water and small flies, things perhaps get different.

Howie
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Old 08-09-2006, 08:08 AM
JR SPEY JR SPEY is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chromedome
I agree that if you're swinging, leader shyness is not as important. And I'm not experienced enough to speculate on the degree of importance. But I do know this. No one I know, and some of these guys are formidable and well known as accomplished steelheaders, ever goes with heavier than 0X when swinging. And nearly all of the regular "swingers" use FC.

Well, I have a spool of 0X nylon right here that is 16lb., and a couple more that are 13lb., so I'd say that is, indeed, possible. They may choose to use FC because they think it works better, and in low clear water it probably does, but I truthfully have noticed no difference on swung flies in normal water conditions. One material that I really like in low water is YoZuri Hybrid. It's a combination nylon/FC product that has many of the advantages of FC without some of the disadvantages. For one thing, it's not nearly as picky regarding knots. It only comes in spools designed for conventional gear, but I spool it off on old tippet dispensers.

As for FC being thicker than some nylons. That used to be universally true, but the third generation FC material is quite a bit thinner than first generation. Seaguar Grand Max is one example (0X is 16.5lb.) So is Sightfree G3. I'm sure there are more.
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Old 08-09-2006, 08:39 AM
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I field tested sightfree g3 in saltwater for two seasons where it was thhoroughly abused and took the beating well, so added it in smaller sizes to my steelhead vest. However until my 500 yard spools of Maxima ultragreen run out from refilling my pocket spools, I will be sticking with UG too.

Maxima 8# or sometimes 10# in summer, 12# 15# and sometimes higher in winter.

Flouro is so thin I won't use less than 12# sightfree g3 in summer, and 20# in winter. It's still very stealthy in these diams.

I tie either double turles, turles or palomar knots which all hold very well with the strength advantage going to the palomar but the turle gets the nod for loop eye traditional flies; double turle for summer weight tippets and single turles in big winter diameters (I tend to go big in winter). I've had bad luck with loop knots but am trying to find or develop one that I trust for that lifetime native buck.

As far as tippets... I am not sure the fish really care as much as we do.
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Old 08-09-2006, 05:55 PM
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I really like to use a fluorocarbon leader on floating line in low and cold water conditions -not so much for its stealth but for its sinking characteristics. A sparsely-dressed unweighted fly on a heavy hook will attain good depth in these conditions with proper line control.

To make a long leader for use with the two-handed rod, simply extend the butt section (not the tippet) of a tapered leader with 5 to 7-feet of fluorocarbon material that is of the same diameter or slighltly larger than the leader's butt.
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Old 08-10-2006, 01:15 PM
Venture Venture is offline
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Pescaphile,

Your points are very interesting. I did not know that FC sinks better than mono. I will take that information and use it.

Also I liked your suggestion about lengthening the leaders by extending the butt section instead of the tapered end or the tippet. I love to learn new things that make perfectly great sense. And using FC in this section makes perfect sense since it helps to lay the rest of the leader under the surface film more quickly.

In this game, you need to use any trick you can use to increase the slim odds of Salmon fishing.

Howie
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Old 08-10-2006, 05:42 PM
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Here is my 2 cents worth. Use Maxima for atlantic salmon, period.

If you are using a sink tip, you need a very short leader typically 2 feet or less, and generally in the 20-30 pound test. Maxima.

Casting large flies with large rods on large rivers with windy conditions to large fish that are not leader shy, use maxima. The fly will turn over much better with maxima in these conditions.

Almost all wet fly fishing for atlantic salmon is done with a fly that is swinging, maxima works great in this situation.

For trout fishing, things like the diameter of the leader, how soft it is, how visible it is, how it helps for dead drifting and the like are important. Most of these are not issues when atlantic salmon fishing.

Rarely in very low water warm water fishing over stale fish will you need to go down to a light small fine leader ( usually just to get it through the eye of the hook you are tying on). I try to use the heaviest possible leader so when I hook the fish I can get it in fast, particularly when you are in low warm conditions.

There is no reason to use flouro, I have found it to sometimes break for no reason. This does not happen with maxima. Wind knots come out very easy with maxima, and if you get a hook up with a wind knot, no big deal with maxima.

Bottom line, use maxima for atlantic salmon.

Tight Lines,

Jim Y
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Old 08-10-2006, 09:01 PM
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Venture,
If you fish with dries, you'll not want to use FC. It will cause even a buoyant deer-hair fly to go subsurface even if you use a riffle hitch.
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Old 08-11-2006, 06:15 AM
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Another reason I like Maxima is that I like to build my own leaders. Those spools make it simple. I go to the store and buy sizes incrementally, then I tie them incrementally. Easy!

Now I have the bulk spools of most common sizes and refill the spools. Lately the only reason I buy spools is because of solar degredation warping them over time. Makes me think about this whole flats guide thing on my skin

And as Jim says it's good stuff. When appropriate, I blood knot some flouro for tippet.

Pescaphile -

Very good point about the sinking butt, I fish greased line / sinking fly a lot in fall and that's a good application of flouro indeed. thanks for the tip I'll use it.
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  #13  
Old 08-19-2006, 12:23 PM
Green Ghost Green Ghost is offline
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Flouro Carbon Tippets

My ten Cents,

I have been using Seagaur Flouro for Atlantics for three to four years now. I formerly used Either Maxima Ultra green OR Dai Riki.

About a year ago, Someone said that Salar can see Flouro Carbon on this site. I cannot prove this as the fish will not tell me. I have not experienced any of the Breaking / cracking / knot tying problems described here. I start with a 9 foot tapered leader of this material in 10 or 8 pound depending on water levels. I use all Barrel Knots to Taper my leader after that. I use All Turle knots for wet flies and all Improved clinch Knots for dry Flies. It is small diameter, cast little shadow and the Stuff is indestructible

For example, I landed a 20 pound fish On the St Jean In 10 minutes with some current and a very fresh fish SOLO (alone) and released it quickly. You can really lean on this tippet. That day I was using 10 pound test. EVen accross rocks it holds up. Even with Saltwater Bluefish with Razors in their mouths it Holds on For a long Time.

I cannot even begin to try and Break the 12 pound. (I think My Rod would break First).

I go as low as 6 pound test when the water is low and they definitely cannot see it. It holds up to rocks extremely well.

Where is the proof that Salar can See Flouro Carbon???

I found out that Maxima Stretches alot , The Knots BURN easily ( especially Barrel Knots). Change the tippet if you catch a fish! You cannot use it twice for another fish (learned that the hard way)

OK My results: I have had salmon come to the dry fly and not take it on Numerous occasions with Flouro Carbon. I have also had full Commitment with flouro Carbon. I have never tried to raise the fish with Flouro carbon and have it refuse to Commit, then Switch to Mono (Maxima) to see if the fish takes it.

You just do not have the time to experiment with these fish. Patience
is what usually pays off and not the kind of tippet you use.

More than ten cents revealed, Please someone reply with the Optical tests conducted with Live Atlantic Salmon and small dry flies And Maybe I will try to experiment and proove or disproove these theories!!!!!
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  #14  
Old 01-16-2009, 05:03 PM
Green Ghost Green Ghost is offline
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Flouro Carbon Tippets

OK, IT was August 19 2006 and a very usefull discussion. Take your Pick!
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Old 01-17-2009, 07:19 AM
Venture Venture is offline
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I took a double take when I saw this thread! I could have sworn I did not write the opening post. Then I noticed the date! Well my flies have seen much water since that date almost three years ago.

During the 2006 season I was experimenting with different tippets as per the first post. On July 2 in the Park D'Matane I hooked what I thought to be the biggest salmon I ever saw on a 12 double tied to Rio (micro diameter). The fish was at least 35 pounds. Before my cast, I tied on a new fly and checked my leader for knots. All was perfect. I cast twice for that fish and he took it hard on that second cast. He came up, showed himself broadside, and after no more than 10 seconds and a few head shakes we parted ways. My tippet end showed the tell tail signs of a slipped knot.

Afterwards while I sat dejected on the bank, I examined the 10 pound micro tippet with new eyes. It was micro thin and extremely limp and I quickly realized that I should never have been using that on anything other than a trout. What was I thinking back then!!

It's interesting for me to read my thoughts from 3 years ago. I know that if I just stuck with 8# Maxima on that fish it would have at least given me much more time and perhaps been my biggest trophy. Instead, it turned into one of those 10 second fish stories..
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