Terminal knot (straight eye SW flies) - Fly Fishing Forum
Stripers and Coastal Gamefish Stripers, Blues, Inshore tuna!

View Poll Results: SW tippet to SW fly... which knot gets the nod?
Palomar 2 6.06%
Non-slip loop 18 54.55%
Clinch or improved clinch 6 18.18%
Trilene 1 3.03%
slip loop 2 6.06%
other (explain below) 4 12.12%
Voters: 33. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 07-19-2006, 12:59 PM
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Terminal knot (straight eye SW flies)

What knot do you use?
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  #2  
Old 07-19-2006, 01:04 PM
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Palomar for smaller flies and lighter tippets. Clinch for 20# tippet and up.......I have an aversion to tying loop knots from tying too many in the old Rapala days before they invented split rings
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Old 07-19-2006, 01:11 PM
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I use the palomar for smaller flies, but prefer the non-slip loop knot for medium and large flies because of the freedom of movement that it provides.

I've had too many failures with clinch knots, both improved and the original.
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  #4  
Old 07-19-2006, 01:24 PM
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No slip loop for everything but trout (trilene knot)
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  #5  
Old 07-19-2006, 02:28 PM
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I think it depends on what you want the fly to do. For instance, on a neutral buoyancy silverside pattern I would go with the clinch knot so that the fly would track straight throw the water like the natural tends to. For a clouser or or any fly I want to get down or have extended motion the non-slip loop. One knot is like having one fly or one rod or....well you get the point.

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Old 07-19-2006, 02:36 PM
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Palomar or improved clinch.
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  #7  
Old 07-19-2006, 04:05 PM
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I didn't see square knot on the list
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  #8  
Old 07-19-2006, 04:59 PM
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There are a lot of options out there. My "go to" knot is the non-slip mono (Kreh loop) for it's freedom of movement. When targeting big fish I like the double strength in the eye of the palomar. When a blitz is going on, my knot of choice is the Davy knot. It is 100% and quick to tie. Unless the clinch knot is seven turns, it is crap. Don't try that with 20lb tippet unless you wear gloves.

If you are using a mono/fluoro bite tippet, then the Homer-Rhodes Improved for a loop is my preference. Big flies and big fish, e.g. tarpon, you might want to snell it.

With wire, you can use a figure eight or the Davy knot.
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  #9  
Old 07-19-2006, 10:56 PM
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Well so far I'd conclude that...

(1) The clinch has lost popularity over the years due to poor performance. It was by far the most popular knot a while ago, and one extra tag-thru (improved) doesn't solve the weakness issues despite it being easy to tie.

(2) The non-slip loop is quite popular, probably because anglers are always looking for extra action

(3) Palomar seems to be considered the superior light tippet knot, most likely because of high strength

... and polls don't reflect much unless you read the posts!

I have found the trilene knot (a double-thru then clinch) to be very strong but if I am going to tie that I tie a palomar instead.

Recently Brian Chou, a Yakima R. guide from Seattle, showed me the use of the perfection loop to tie a non-slip loop (otherwise known as the "baja" knot). I've been playing with this and like it for larger tippet sizes in those cases where I want a loop because the knot is so compact.

My experience, anecdotally speaking, has been that the loop knot fails on the single strand loop and knot the knot itself so I would imagine the strength of the knot verses the more common non-slip loop is fine with big tippets (remembering we are talking stripers here).

I rarely use anything but a palomar from trout tippets to tarpon, opting for quick and easy strength and put the action in the fly not the knot but tha being said I like to experiment. Not sure if I am catching any more fish but knots are interesting!
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Last edited by juro; 07-19-2006 at 11:46 PM.
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  #10  
Old 07-20-2006, 12:54 AM
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Take the knot test challenge...

Hmmm... insomnia, just took this test:


Use 8# test or something because the point is to break the line to test strength, not to give ourselves a hernia. My test was done with 8# maxima.

Tie a non-slip loop on one end of a piece of line, then a perfection on the other end, big enough to put a pen through. Put two pens in each and pull apart until one breaks. Sample at least 3 times or more. Which one breaks?

Slip-loop vs. non-slip loop?

Then substitute one end with a surgeon's loop. Now which one breaks?

-- next: loop vs. non-loop --

The only way to test loop against non-loop knots is with flies, so get two same flies and tie a loop knot on one fly and a single strand non-loop like a clinch or uni on the other. Put the pens on the bends of the hooks and (carefully) pull to breakpoint. Which breaks?

Now tie a double-strand non-slip knot like a palomar or trilene on one fly and the non-slip loop on the other fly. Put the bends on the pens and break. Which breaks?

-- effect on fish --

The other coefficient is effect on fish. I guess we could measure success of two anglers using the same fly side by side, striper situations (rips, flats, estuaries, night, surf, etc) one looping the other not - allowing the loop angler to choose the fly believed to be the most advantageous design for use with a loop.

My guess... effect on fish catching is little, strength difference is concrete.

IMHO loop knots catch fishermen not fish.
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  #11  
Old 07-20-2006, 02:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juro
I rarely use anything but a palomar from trout tippets to tarpon, opting for quick and easy strength and put the action in the fly not the knot but tha being said I like to experiment. Not sure if I am catching any more fish but knots are interesting!
I have some doubts about loops but tie them anyway in calm water. I think
that they're a waste of time in rougher water, especially surf. Otherwise, I
use the palomar almost all of the time, the exception being when my fingers (and
brain) are getting stiff after n hours out and I'm trying to tie on a long(ish) fly.
Then it's the trilene which, while more complicated, sometimes seems to become
easier than the palomar. It's hard to explain why. But the trilene *is* a very
solid knot, pretty much on par with the palomar, I think, and stronger than the
clinch, etc.
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  #12  
Old 07-20-2006, 04:38 AM
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Clinch knot for mono 50-80 when I tie up leaders for cod fishing.

Palomar for tying plugs direct to the line.

Non-slip loop for my flys, easy and fast to tie in the dark, and it has never failed from trout to tuna
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  #13  
Old 07-20-2006, 05:54 AM
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Interesting test Juro.

I tend to use a perfection loop for tying on flies. Small knot and lays straight.
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  #14  
Old 07-20-2006, 08:09 AM
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About loop knots: they are not all the same. Yes perfection loops are weak (convenient, however) but the no-slip loop tests damn close to 100%. It is quite highly regarded by big game anglers worldwide. In fact, now that I think about it I don't think I have ever broken one. The tippet knot, a blood knot in the leader, or the hook almost always breaks first!

I used to be an "improved" clinch fan but it's too easy to burn the mono when you clinch it down. This has led to a few lost fish for me. Choice of terminal knots is all about personal confidence. It doesn't matter which one is scientifically superior when it's time to rip lips.
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  #15  
Old 07-20-2006, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDave
About loop knots: they are not all the same. Yes perfection loops are weak (convenient, however) but the no-slip loop tests damn close to 100%. It is quite highly regarded by big game anglers worldwide. In fact, now that I think about it I don't think I have ever broken one. The tippet knot, a blood knot in the leader, or the hook almost always breaks first!

I used to be an "improved" clinch fan but it's too easy to burn the mono when you clinch it down. This has led to a few lost fish for me. Choice of terminal knots is all about personal confidence. It doesn't matter which one is scientifically superior when it's time to rip lips.
Great points especially the one about confidence. I don't seem to lose any confidence when I fish without a loop as long as the fish keep hitting it whereas others might cite the knot as the reason they are not getting fish, or give credit to it for success.

However I think a surgeon's knot to tippet would never break before the loop knot, and I can give that a quick test tonight. Surgeon's knots are extremely strong, much stronger than a loop. A blood knot probably would give before a loop knot unless there are snags involved (will try it).

Another point about big game fishermen - they are prone to the most extravagantly protracted knots known to man which I can't say for sure is due to need or because they are big game fishermen with a lot of spare time between runs. Probably a mixture of both proven need and shack nasty science. I had a bit of that last night with those break tests.

I am not qualified to say, just guessing.
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