Lines for the Oceana 9/10? - Fly Fishing Forum
Stripers and Coastal Gamefish Stripers, Blues, Inshore tuna!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-24-2006, 07:40 PM
peter-s-c peter-s-c is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Grand River, Ontario
Posts: 2,084
Lines for the Oceana 9/10?

More time I spend with the cheapo lines I bought, the less I like them (too heavy).

What have Oceana 9/10 users found to work well?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old 05-24-2006, 08:43 PM
sean's Avatar
sean sean is offline
LBFF Mojo
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 2,160
skagit 450 with a floating tip for overhead and spey casting in the surf.

10wt outbounds relieved of thier running lines with the aurflo tactical running used instead.

The rod is a different animal than the big atlantis , do not hit it hard and it goes and goes.

-sean
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3  
Old 05-25-2006, 06:05 AM
peter-s-c peter-s-c is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Grand River, Ontario
Posts: 2,084
Interesting comment re: don't push it hard

The first time on the water was with a small fly and an Airflo 28' head that weighed in at 355 grains (AFTMA 12 weight country @ 28'). My cheapo lines are 475 and 490 -- probably a tad lighter than a Skagit 450 plus floater tip. The first time out with the floater cheapo, I had a quartering tailwind + a fluffy, laid out nice gentle casts and got decent distance. Next time with the intermediate cheapo, I have a headwind + a big, heavy fly, tried to drive it into the wind and all sorts of ugliness resulted. I could've cast my single hander 10 wt. the same distance.

The Outbound I tried at the Salmon River clave seemed to be a nice fit, but that was with a fluffy and no wind.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4  
Old 05-25-2006, 06:56 AM
juro's Avatar
juro juro is offline
Coast2coast Flyfishaholic
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Steelhead country|striper coast|bonefish belt
Posts: 20,593
Peter -

That rod was fit with a 10wt Intermediate Outbound which I feel is a good 'easy stroke' fit for the rod. The floater and fast sink have a different feel as is the case with any line.

The reason I think Sean suggested the running line replacement was that one fishes better than the other in the field, meaning an intermediate running line with a bit of mass stays put in the basket better than a thin floating running line in wind and the mayhem that arises when the big fish are in.

And they were in last weekend. And the floating line tangled but that was about the windiest day where beach fishing was possible, any more and it would be time to duck and cover.

The next day I went with the big gun. It provided the beach superiority I needed and I hooked fish from about 75% or more of the opportunities that arose despite even worse conditions than Sat with steady wind gusting over 30mph making it hard to walk. I used the Airflo 40+ beach line on the big Atlantis and the Rio Outbound in 14wt fast sink (600 gr) which is heavy for the rod but again with a relaxed stroke it casts itself.
__________________
IFFF Certified THCI @ 2005
Capeflyfisher Guide Service
Island Hopper, Guitarist, Incurable Dreamer
and Founder, Worldwide Flyfishing Forum
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5  
Old 05-25-2006, 09:00 AM
peter-s-c peter-s-c is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Grand River, Ontario
Posts: 2,084
I have the 40+ for the 11/12 as well.

The 9/10 is giving me that "deja vu all over again" feeling. I had an 11 wt. before that was fussy to cast, needed a light stroke, and wouldn't tolerate pushing. The butt section seemed too stiff for the rest of the rod so that when loaded up, the mid and upper sections were pushed too hard and the butt wasn't doing its fair share. When I dropped the line weight, the rod came alive and was easy to cast as the butt was now no longer needed -- the mid and upper sections were adequate to cast the lighter line.

When I get home tonight, I'll try some lighter heads to see if the same thing is occuring on the Oceana as well. I did notice that with my heavy cheapos, the butt wasn't bending much and my normal casting stroke usually bends the butt sections pretty well.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6  
Old 05-25-2006, 10:07 AM
juro's Avatar
juro juro is offline
Coast2coast Flyfishaholic
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Steelhead country|striper coast|bonefish belt
Posts: 20,593
I'm not sure if any changes since the atlantis but the 9/10 delivers the extra distance best while whispering the 'lead before speed' mantra. The finish is important with that match-up (10wt outbound) where the upper arm should maintain the path of acceleration into the release and the bottom hand should honor that as it comes upward to the armpit.

Did you measure the head length on that 40+? Quite a running line eh?
__________________
IFFF Certified THCI @ 2005
Capeflyfisher Guide Service
Island Hopper, Guitarist, Incurable Dreamer
and Founder, Worldwide Flyfishing Forum
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7  
Old 05-25-2006, 10:42 AM
peter-s-c peter-s-c is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Grand River, Ontario
Posts: 2,084
Quote:
Originally Posted by juro
I'm not sure if any changes since the atlantis but the 9/10 delivers the extra distance best while whispering the 'lead before speed' mantra. The finish is important with that match-up (10wt outbound) where the upper arm should maintain the path of acceleration into the release and the bottom hand should honor that as it comes upward to the armpit.

Did you measure the head length on that 40+? Quite a running line eh?
Mine's 33' but Rajeff will swap it for a 35 footer when they finally arrive. Yes the running line is very nice.

Part of my problem is the short, snap Underhand style stroke that I have. With heavier lines it can produce an overload condition on some rods. I often need to underline my other two-handers to get them to perform to my satisfaction. I'll be trying an AFTMA rated 10 wt. this evening to see if that's a better match for me.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8  
Old 05-25-2006, 10:51 AM
juro's Avatar
juro juro is offline
Coast2coast Flyfishaholic
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Steelhead country|striper coast|bonefish belt
Posts: 20,593
The shorter head can be helped with leader design although it would probably be longer than you care for in SWFF in order to dissipate and brake the energy enough to suffice. A big fly also parachutes it for you.

In addition to line the rod action and your casting stroke are variables of equal or more influence. However depending on the person and situation sometimes one is easier than the other to change.

IMHO the most adaptive and potentially beneficial is flexibility in your casting stroke. Cheaper too

However it can be less satisfying than having the rod, line matchup accomodate you.

One of the benefits of the more supple 9/10 is roll, switch, Skagit and Spey etc. It does take a bit of adjustment to get to the backing consistently every cast with overhead blasts but not overly difficult and it's a pleasant groove to get into where you work little to get a lot over the course of a hard days fishing.
__________________
IFFF Certified THCI @ 2005
Capeflyfisher Guide Service
Island Hopper, Guitarist, Incurable Dreamer
and Founder, Worldwide Flyfishing Forum
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9  
Old 05-25-2006, 12:02 PM
peter-s-c peter-s-c is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Grand River, Ontario
Posts: 2,084
Quote:
Originally Posted by juro
In addition to line the rod action and your casting stroke are variables of equal or more influence. However depending on the person and situation sometimes one is easier than the other to change.

IMHO the most adaptive and potentially beneficial is flexibility in your casting stroke. Cheaper too
Unfortunately, previous bouts with rotator cuff tendenitis precludes any sort of power stroke that requires lots of top hand push. The side benefit has been the development of a low effort, bottom hand oriented stroke that works OK. My LeCie 9/10 needs a "drift 'n' drag" stroke to get it working well and I'll try this evening to see if that'll make a difference on the Oceana.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10  
Old 05-25-2006, 06:23 PM
peter-s-c peter-s-c is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Grand River, Ontario
Posts: 2,084
To make matters worse, two of us bought Oceana 9/10s at the same tome however they were labeled 8/9s and so were the rod socks. We were assured that this was just a labeling error but my rod doesn't like the grainage piled on. It even cast my 8 wt. single hander shooting heads that only weigh 255! At best it'll handle an AFTMA 10 wt. line.

The bad news is; my el cheapos won't work on the 8/9 Oceana (probably would on a 9/10) but the good news is; I'm up to my arse in lines for the 11/12 as the el cheapos work great on it (a little light but still great).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11  
Old 05-25-2006, 11:21 PM
SSPey SSPey is offline
loco alto!
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Oregon
Posts: 97
I spent a little time using that rod with an Airflo coldwater clear single hand 10 wt line (38' head) - it loaded and fished well - though the running line wasn't nearly as slick as the polyshoot XT.
__________________
Steve
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12  
Old 05-26-2006, 06:26 AM
peter-s-c peter-s-c is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Grand River, Ontario
Posts: 2,084
Quote:
Originally Posted by SSPey
I spent a little time using that rod with an Airflo coldwater clear single hand 10 wt line (38' head) - it loaded and fished well - though the running line wasn't nearly as slick as the polyshoot XT.
That's where I'm leaning as well -- an AFTMA 10 wt. single hander line. My 10 wt. floater SH line worked best on it last night with the 10 wt. Airflo SHs being next best.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13  
Old 05-26-2006, 07:50 AM
sean's Avatar
sean sean is offline
LBFF Mojo
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 2,160
The rods are 9/10 and not 8/9s. It was a labeling error and I have compared the new oceana to my atlantis version and they are the same. It is more than likely the bottom hand pull as you are putting too much energy into it so those lighter lines will serve you well.

Like I said I use a 600 grain line with about 5 feet pulled in so I am probably aeralizing 500 and change. It is effortless and I barely have to do a forward cast to shoot the whole thing. Plus it spey casts pretty well with the whole head outside the guides which is a supreme advantage in the surf.

If you really want the best overhead lines they are the outbounds. Maybe Juro will let you try his out on the cape.

-sean
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #14  
Old 05-26-2006, 09:00 AM
peter-s-c peter-s-c is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Grand River, Ontario
Posts: 2,084
Quote:
Originally Posted by sean
The rods are 9/10 and not 8/9s. It was a labeling error and I have compared the new oceana to my atlantis version and they are the same. It is more than likely the bottom hand pull as you are putting too much energy into it so those lighter lines will serve you well.
Good to know -- I was beginning to wonder about the accuracy of the "labeling error" claim.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sean
Like I said I use a 600 grain line with about 5 feet pulled in so I am probably aeralizing 500 and change. It is effortless and I barely have to do a forward cast to shoot the whole thing. Plus it spey casts pretty well with the whole head outside the guides which is a supreme advantage in the surf.
Well, that's always been the difference between those who toss massive grainage with a slowly accelerated stroke vs. those who use low grainage with rapid acceleration. It's the same force being used to load the rod, just a different mix of mass and acceleration. The advantage here for high weights is that it works nicely with great big clousers.

When I first cast the el cheapo floater, I had a quartering tailwind so I slowed my stroke and opened up the loop to take advantage of the wind -- went very nicely. When I tried to tighten up the loop with my usuual stroke and drive it into the wind, lots of nasty head crashes and tailing loops ensued as the rod was clearly knuckling under -- classic overload condition. No problem with a SH 10 wt. line though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sean
If you really want the best overhead lines they are the outbounds. Maybe Juro will let you try his out on the cape.

-sean
I found the Outbound to be very nice on it at the Salmon River clave but that was with no wind and no fly. I'll have to spend some time with one before I spend anymore money on lines for this rod.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #15  
Old 05-26-2006, 09:17 AM
juro's Avatar
juro juro is offline
Coast2coast Flyfishaholic
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Steelhead country|striper coast|bonefish belt
Posts: 20,593
Quote:
Originally Posted by peter-s-c
Unfortunately, previous bouts with rotator cuff tendenitis precludes any sort of power stroke that requires lots of top hand push.
Peter,

Sorry to hear about your rotator cuff ailment.

Luckily a "top hand push" is not necessary; when I said "the upper arm should maintain the path of acceleration into the release and the bottom hand should honor that as it comes upward to the armpit" it did not necessarily mean a top hand push using the shoulder but rather adjustment to keep the bottom hand pull within a focused lane (which co-incides with the path of acceleration).

That could be as simple as using the elbow (for fore/aft) without any shoulder action or lowering the hand postion coming forward (like a scandi stroke) or using the hips to rotate slightly to accomodate the arms, rather than the common mistake of making the arms swivel around the body so the body doesn't have to move.

As I know you are a very technical guy, as long as the deflection of the rod loads and unloads in alignment with the path coming from the backcast, and as long as that path remains straight it's an easy and very fishable cast with the 10wt outbound.

Not that you are doing this but pulling hard with the bottom hand while the top hand remains motionless can only result in a radial arc of the rod tip. This pulls the energy out of the focused lane of which I spoke. Even without a push, the back/forth vector in opening the elbow and vertical control helps keep the bottom hand power inside a focused "lane", that is to say keeps it from scribing a circular power path.

You might already know that where an up-down adjustment of the top hand helps direct lower hand power (underhand / scandi style) an outside-in motion assisted by the hips achieves the same result and the two can be combined. You can see a lot of both of these forces in Henrik Mortensen's dvd as well as the short clip at the end of the Rio International VHS. I'll pop in Simon's new DVD to see if there is an in-depth segment over the weekend.

In summary, the point I was trying to make was that strong bottom hand requires some form of compensation of the upper hand (not necessarily a shoulder rotation) to keep the deflection of the rod pulling the path in line. There are many ways to achieve that, and you've named one - going lighter on the line which reduces the rod deflection.
__________________
IFFF Certified THCI @ 2005
Capeflyfisher Guide Service
Island Hopper, Guitarist, Incurable Dreamer
and Founder, Worldwide Flyfishing Forum
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Fly Fishing Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
CND Oceana MINT Smolt For Sale by Owner 2 05-07-2009 02:00 PM
CND Atlantis/Oceana 9/10 and 10/11 sean For Sale by Owner 3 06-28-2007 11:02 PM
CND Atlantis - Oceana 9/10 SSPey For Sale by Owner 0 04-20-2007 12:12 AM
CND Atlantis/Oceana Greg Pavlov For Sale by Owner 0 03-18-2007 11:31 AM
Intermediate lines for the Atlantis/Oceana flydoc Stripers and Coastal Gamefish 10 03-06-2007 09:20 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:08 AM.



Copyright Flyfishingforum.com (All Rights Reserved)