Whats your Bone Rod/Reel? - Page 4 - Fly Fishing Forum
Bonefish, Tarpon, and other Obsessions Turquoise water, silver demons on the fly

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  #46  
Old 06-30-2006, 08:04 PM
peter-s-c peter-s-c is offline
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Sean

Shite! Shite? You must've been hanging around with Houlding.

BTW, owning two High Line Speeds, if you can't cast 'em with their rate weight you ain't castin' 'em right.

Juro

I know how a shooting head casts and I know how a regular line casts (no magic in so-called bonefish tapers) and I can give chapter 'n' verse on each but having never fished for bones, I have no idea which one would work best. The stripping back and pickup of the shooting head is a concern but how much of a concern?????

Peter
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  #47  
Old 06-30-2006, 08:16 PM
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If it's a bluebird day and the tide is cranking, the big bonefish god in the towering Bahamian clouds is banging the drum loUDER AND LOUDER, almost as loud as your heart is pounding as the onslaught of the marls begins and the mangroves call their siren song to summon the hordes of silver ghosts from the sea to the shallows...

it's a big concern.

otherwise who cares
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  #48  
Old 06-30-2006, 09:00 PM
peter-s-c peter-s-c is offline
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Got it . . . .
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  #49  
Old 07-01-2006, 07:43 AM
JR SPEY JR SPEY is offline
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Peter,

Juro touched on the reason why the shooting head would be limiting, but didn't expound on it. From a boat, many bonefish casts will be 50-70'. I can't tell you how many times I've made a 60' cast and had the guide say, "Now pick it up and put it ten feet to the right." That borders on being impossible with many of today's bonefish lines that have short rear tapers and running lines not much thicker than a flyline type running line for a shooting head system. If you have to strip back in twenty feet of line to make that second cast the bones are gone. I quit using SA Mastery Bonefish tapers because of the thin running lines and have given up on several other lines for the same reason. On a 60' cast you'll have between 45' and 50' of line on the water. If you can't pick that up without stipping in any line your guide will probably ask you to use his gear. A thicker running line means you give up a little in extreme distance. However, accuracy is far more important than distance as is the ability to recast without stripping in line. Thicker running lines also tangle far less frequently. By all means bring a shooting head system along if you choose, but bring a spare spool/reel with a true bonefish line that has a fairly long rear taper and a reasonably thick running line. I can almost assure you that by day 2 you'll be glad you brought it.
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  #50  
Old 07-01-2006, 08:18 AM
peter-s-c peter-s-c is offline
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Thanks, that's the sort of info I was looking for. As you suggest, I'll probably bring both and reserve the SH setup for any wading I might do.
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  #51  
Old 07-02-2006, 12:00 PM
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bonehead bonehead is offline
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Lamson & O'Rings...

Juro,

They now have a new stainless steel and anodized clutch mechanism that should solve that problem.

I had the same problem you're refering too after I had to dunk my rod/reel under an anchor line to land a bone. About a week later the reel started seizing up so I popped it open and, sure enough, the clutch was rusted over. (Not the bearings, just the housing.) I cleaned it up and it still worked for like another 2 years but I eventually thought I should send it in for service. When I did I mentioned my dissapointment in their choice of materials for the clutch and they said, no worries, they've addressed the issue.

They'll replace the old clutches for free with a few bucks for S&H. Also, if the corrosion has caused problems with the actual drag mechanism, they'll replace that for free too.
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  #52  
Old 07-02-2006, 12:28 PM
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On the money...

I'd have to agree with JR SPEY on the thoughts about running line and SA's obsession for distance. I've quit using them as well.

99% of the time, the first cast to a bone doesn't get it done. Quick, accurate recasts are essential, especially on those all to common occasions when the angler doesn't see the fish. Over the dark turtlegrass flats we have here, I regularly guide the casting/stripping of my anglers to get them into bones they never see, until we land them. Now, I obviously would much rather have the angler see the fish - they can make a better presentation then - but that's not always possible when a fish is coming at you and you're running out of time. Shooting heads might load quickly (no arguement there) but they don't allow for quick pickups, which are absolutely essential in flats fishing (bones, tarpon, permit, reds, etc.). A good flats line (Cortland or Rio) will give you that option, although you still want to match your line for they type of fishing you'll be doing that day. (ie bright sunny day with great visabilility for bones and anglers might require longer shots, but an overcast, windy day might necessitate quick, short shots.)

The other reason I'd venture to say shooting heads would be a less than idea choice is that they generate way too much linespeed. This would make a delicate presentation very difficult indeed. Also, the sound of a flyline hitting the water does indeed spook fish, and heads are definitely heavier. That's why so many bonefish guides I've fished with love sidearm casting - the line doesn't fall from such a height so the splashdown is minimized. On calm, clear days (especially around the full moon) I regularly see bones change direction after they hear a line slap water. On those day's I've gone down to a #6 rod/line settup and started catching fish again. They just don't hear that light line hitting the water as easily.

Speaking of which, if you can cast well, don't ignore those lighter rods. Personally every time I travel to fish the weather is lousy (blowing 20-30 and cloudy) but I have had a handful of days where a lighter rod made the difference. (Tarpon in the Keys and bones in Bahamas and Little Cayman.) Carry a toy when you go, sometimes that lighter rod/line can be on the money.
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  #53  
Old 07-03-2006, 09:13 AM
peter-s-c peter-s-c is offline
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OK I get the message, ditch the shooting heads. Will do.

BTW, I noticed people seem down on SA bonefish lines but reading their latest blurb it seems that they've been paying attention. Supposed to have a thicker running line, longer belly and rear taper plus a heavier front end for quicker loading and wind. Has anyone tried this version?

About floaters sinking after a few uses. Well we've all heard about water wicking up the braided core and I know I've been a bit skeptical about this as a cause. I've tried sealing some wth glue but no joy (the glue probably cracked afterward). Recently I've been fishing with an Airflo WF-5-F Ridge line that comes with factory loops molded in. Guess what, no tip sink at all. Best floating trout line I've ever used and Airflo doesn't have exactly the best rep when it comes to trout lines. From now on I'm heat sealing the ends of all of my new floaters before they ever get wet.

Peter
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  #54  
Old 07-03-2006, 06:12 PM
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Interesting...

That's an interesting cause I'd never heard of. That may be the reason SA lines start to sink... or at least one of the causes... After all, Rio lines with their mono core don't sink, so there's a logic there. Of course, if you look at Cortland, Teeny or Wulff lines (all of which have braided cores) you'll find they keep floating, so that sort of falls apart.

Also, they way I attach my leaders to flyline is by loop-to-loop. I make my own loops in both ends of the flyline by doubling the line back on itself and tying a pair of Nail knots with 10-12 lb test mono about 1/2 inch apart. These cinch down so tight that I seriously doubt water is getting in through the ends. Personally, I think it has to do with the bouancy of the line itself, and maybe the diameter. (Greater diameter equals greater displacement equals greater bouancy... maybe.)

I haven't fished SA's new line, and I won't until one of my clients brings one with. All I know is my experience with their products while wading has been disappointing, to put it mildly.

Bonehead
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  #55  
Old 07-03-2006, 07:55 PM
JR SPEY JR SPEY is offline
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When the new Mastery lines were first introduced (maybe four years ago now?) they had a thin running line. After a bunch of complaints about them, the running line diameter was increased slightly. More recently, however, they switched back to the former dimension (from my understanding it was at Bruce Richards' insistence). If they've switched again it must have been very recently. What I've been told by my contacts at SA is if a customer wants a heavier running line I should sell him the Mastery Redfish line. Evidently, there are several features of this line that make it more suitable for bonefishing than the Mastery Bonefish for many anglers. Since I now lead my customers toward the Rio (especially the 2006 version which is not nearly as wiry) and the Monic (the Tropical Opaque is still the best bonefish line I've ever used) I can't comment on the usefullness of the Mastery Redfish, but it might be worth checking out.
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  #56  
Old 07-04-2006, 08:47 AM
peter-s-c peter-s-c is offline
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I'm getting the info on the running line from SA's information bulletin on their website -- assuming it's current. Looking at the bulletin, it would seem to address the issues mentioned in this thread, but only so much can be gained from it -- nothing beats time on the water.

As far as wicking goes, it's enough of a problem for Rio to menition it on their site. I've found that nail knots do not prevent wicking as the end of the braided core is still in contact with water. I would suspect that better performance by other brands reflects differences in core material and construction. The only sure fire method is a sealed tip. I've heard that some use Zap-a-Gap but I haven't tried that glue -- yet.
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  #57  
Old 07-04-2006, 06:05 PM
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juro juro is offline
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I fish S/A, Rio and Wulff bonefish lines. I like them all.

As far as the comments on S/A, I have to respectfully disagree bonehead - perhaps you got a faulty line? Mine casts wonderfully with the taper Bruce Richards developed and floats fine. The color is great against the sky and I've been very comfortable with all types of casts from quickfire roll casts and snake rolls to head-length reactionary shots to long aerialized reaching casts over flats to distant cruisers, no problems at all.

Even if it did sink slightly under the surface film it's common knowledge that adhesion on the surface film on calm bright days spooks bonefish, I have experienced this first-hand and know it's absolutely true. However I have not had a sinking problem with this line.

The Wulff has the most well-behaved front taper, all Wulff lines seem to have that smooth turnover. While fishing Acklins with Bill Kessler, it was clear his Wulff line was a pleasure to cast and he sung it's praises which led me to order one. I was pleasantly surprised.

I fished the Rio the year before and found it to be a very assertive taper that bites through wind and shoots effortlessly for long casts. It needed some stretching to start the day, but bonefish lines often do.

I don't think you can go wrong with any of these lines, I ended up owning all three for my three bonefish weight rods.
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  #58  
Old 07-06-2006, 06:36 AM
josko josko is offline
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I find Cortland 444 line does just what I'd like a bonefish line to do, and have never had the urge to change.
That's a great set of points about the 'double-casting-duty' of a bonefish rod. I've always assumed that if I didn't see a fish until within 30', it served me right for missing it. I definitely need to focus more on the close-in aspect. Thanks for the heads-up.
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  #59  
Old 07-06-2006, 01:41 PM
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Juro,

It wasn't one "faulty line", which is understandable. I'm talking 4-5 SA Mastery Series Lines in different sizes and a couple Orvis and Sage lines, which I'm pretty sure 3M makes. If not I stand corrected. All of them have started sinking after a 1-2 weeks use.

Now, most of my clients that fish SA (and there are lots) have few problems. But they're fishing those lines maybe a week a year. However, I had a good buddy down a couple weeks ago and he spent 2 weeks fishing bones, tarpon, and permit here. He always laughed at my problems with SA lines too, until his started sinking... and catching in the grass, coral, rocks, etc. He mostly fished from kayak or beach at home and never had a problem.

I've talked with other guides that do lots of wading, from Hawaii to Mexico, and many have had the same problems. One guide out of Nervous Waters Hawaii comes particularly to mind, but he did mention that there was one year in there that did keep floating... but I'm not sure which.

I want to be fair though. I'm talking about the loose loop of line sinking while you're wading: 4-8 hrs a day for months on end during the season here. I'm not talking about a line sinking after you cast it - the surface tension of stripping the line seems to mostly prevent that. I never carry my lines, nor do many of my clients (that usually results in a tangle when a fish takes off). Those lines have more than enough time to absorb water... but then other brands don't seem to have a problem.


PS I love the way they cast and shoot a mile, which is the devil of it.
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  #60  
Old 07-06-2006, 06:09 PM
peter-s-c peter-s-c is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bonehead
Juro,
I want to be fair though. I'm talking about the loose loop of line sinking while you're wading: 4-8 hrs a day for months on end during the season here. I'm not talking about a line sinking after you cast it - the surface tension of stripping the line seems to mostly prevent that.
Ahhh, that's different and not a water wicking problem. Affects steelheaders too when you're casting out a load of line and the running line is two foot under . . . .
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