Quebec's New ZEC Preseason Draw Specs - Page 2 - Fly Fishing Forum
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  #16  
Old 01-12-2006, 02:04 PM
Salar36 Salar36 is offline
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Salar36

Being one these who involved the 75%-25% proposal, I think it would be appropriate to restablish some facts.

This proposal comes from the "strange" results observed in Gaspe and Petite Cascapedia since couple years (a big part of it from the overloading by outfitters and some individuals, but 2005 shown some things in the same trend even if the "non-transferability"rule was changed). The number(%) is just the reflect of the number of licences sold in Quebec; around 75% resident and 25% non-resident. The limited rod sectors are the best products the Quebec ZECs have to offer, and basically, the primary goal when these ZECs were created was to priorize the access for the residents. This goal was not achieved in the last couple years in some rivers.

Now, what would be the best; having the same rule than in New Brunswick for the crown reserves (restricted to NB resident only) ? Allow the draw to resident and unsold rods for non-residents? Mandatory guide for non-resident like in NB or Newfoundland? I don't think the proposed rule penalize any non-resident, and in fact, it still keep Quebec as the place where non-resident has the most accessible water - for limited rod number sectors in public water- for Atlantic Salmon Fishing in North America. Currently, only 4 rivers would be affected...

I understand this reaction, but just imagine Quebec's residents reaction when they realize that 60% of the best public water -in some case more than that- is allocated to non-resident... Some of them asked for a ban of non-resident in the limited rods number sectors during the draw, like in the Crown Reserve in New Brunswick. I don't think this is a rational idea, and most of the Quebec people don't think that too.

From the survey ran in 2004, the BIG major part of the non-resident told they would agree and understand that Quebec Residents have a priority for the draw. And curiously, the BIG majority of Quebec residents did not requested that...Strange no? Maybe a sign of no chauvinism...

This rule is not in place for now, but , according with the comitment done by the government, should be in place by 2007, ready for the draw in 2006, even if some ZEC dissagree. The owners of the ZECs (the Quebec population) agreed.

Last edited by Salar36; 01-12-2006 at 03:28 PM.
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  #17  
Old 01-12-2006, 02:28 PM
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Willie Gunn Willie Gunn is offline
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Thanks for the reply, Scotland is not quite at that stage but the socialist government in Edinburgh has provided a land fund to allow locals to buy the estates if they want. It will then fall to the locals to run the estates as they see fit.

I still think that salmon have to come first. Whether people have to change their beliefs or anglers have to angle else where. If the salmon are wiped out you cannot catch them.

I will keep out of the debate on % but watch with interest
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  #18  
Old 01-12-2006, 07:30 PM
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Salar-1 Salar-1 is offline
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If you were fishing Les Fourches on June 01 ,instead you shoulda been on T--k, Adams, A---e, Laforce run (Spey-run), Brown's (DEFINATELY Browne's) or "The beaches " Only Adams and Browne's are marked on any map . Haven't fished Heppel(or as we Anglos call it, Hoople) since '79,when Major Robert Strong held forth there. Nailed a male on Browne's 3 years back that took me down into McNeil's in Glen Emma.Finally lost it when I couldn't got my hand around the wrist of the fish to release it.
You mentioned "Brian I understand your frustaration" No you don't !!!.My comments were SPECIFICALLY about reserved waters and only reserved waters. I have 2 days on B1 on the Bonnie (ever been there ) The ZEC wants to add 2 rods :tsk_: Since we've been allowed to fish this sector it's been restricted to 4 rods.Because we wade fish there's only a few pools that you walk (50 minutes, 5 and 10 minutes ) into. Generally the other 2 sports are in a canoe ,so the 4 of us manage to fish around each other without stepping on each others toes.Adding the extra rods to this (and other) sector(s) will take away the very solitude that you mentioned you cherish !.
Juro, 'scuse me but to put your name in all the Qc. Zec draws would cost you more than double the 500$ quoted. besides save your money and fish the "public "waters on the Bonnie and Matapedia. Had my bets fishing trips in years ths year on both these rivers and the publicon the Bonnie is IMHO as good as if not better that reserved sectors on other rivers. Except for Phillippe we had the pools to our selves. The Matapedia trips were absolutely incredible !! How's 2 20lb+ released fish and 3 lost in one day sound ??
Cheers

Last edited by Salar-1; 01-12-2006 at 07:48 PM.
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  #19  
Old 01-13-2006, 08:55 PM
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Chris
Checked with Causapscal office today, and sector 3 IS available in the draw to non residents. If you wish to put in for '07 ,PM me and I'll detail the pros and cons.
Cheers
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  #20  
Old 01-15-2006, 08:01 AM
Salar36 Salar36 is offline
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I have read a comment regarding the changes on Albini last summer (Patapedia sector 3). Yes, there were radical change in the flow of the river (in fact, the main flow comes now from the other side of the "lake"....), but by the end of July, over 100 salmon were in the pool. So it is still a major holding pool.
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  #21  
Old 01-15-2006, 02:24 PM
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Good news,glad to hear it !! Speaking of Albini ,I wonder where the waders went ? They'd been hanging in that tree since at least 1970 !!
Did you check out Saumon or the Meadows ? My favourite pool on this sector was Jolie ,however the clearcutting has really f--ked up the scenic driving down the old growth green canopied trail ! Just cross Chevreuil and check out the devistation over the top of the crest that overlooks the camp !!
Cheers
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  #22  
Old 01-16-2006, 09:15 AM
Green Ghost Green Ghost is offline
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Quebec's New ZEC Preseason Draw Specs

The topic now seems to be a discussion on the Patapedia.

I intend to re-iterate a theme from several posts on the original topic.

Outfitters overloading the winter draw the last few years has reduced the chances of the public winning for BOTH residents and non-residents.

If the ZEC will eliminate the outfitters from participation in the winter drawing process altogether, the chance for everyone will be increased.

If the 75/25% rule is put in place and intended to bias the winter reservations for Quebec residents, then the fee structure for non-residents should be normalized.

Why should non-residents enter the drawing with a less than equal chance of winning and more importantly, why should non-residents pay 1.5 times more to fish the water if they do win????

Non-residents will simply realize that their money is not well spent, LESS CHANCE TO WIN, PAYING MORE MONEY IF THEY WIN, END RESULT- FAR LESS VALUE than that of the current rules.

The non-residents that have history with the Zecs and are repeat customers are Highly unlikely to triple what their usual trip costs and revert to the use of an outfitter to gain access to reserved sectors.

The Zecs and the region will in the end reduce the revenues gained by the participation from Non-residents.

That in turn will have to cause an INCREASE in THE FEES for each Rod For each river for residents in order for the ZEC to operate, hire guardians and maintain their operations.

The ZEC's will have to choose-

An equal and fair drawing for the public for both non-residents and residents that Excludes outfitters and their clients.

OR

An equal payment structure for the rods throughout the system in order to keep the non- residents revenues coming into Quebec (and the local communities) instead of forcing them to go elsewhere in pursuit of Salar.
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  #23  
Old 01-16-2006, 10:36 AM
Smolt Smolt is offline
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Green Ghost,

I agree with you in principal, but not in effect. Whatever ZEC charges non-residents will be paid. Good salmon fishing is too scarce for, IMHO, an extra $30-a-day or so to discourage significant numbers of non-resident anglers.

CK
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  #24  
Old 01-16-2006, 01:42 PM
Earle Fletcher Earle Fletcher is offline
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I'll make one last comment on this thread. I hope I haven't caused too many hard feelings by starting it. I've fished the Gaspe rivers since 1970, and they have provided me with some of the best Atlantic Salmon fishing experiences of my life. I think the creation of the ZEC's by the Quebec Government was a good move to put the local people in charge of their rivers. I believe the ZEC in Gaspe, Quebec is especially well managed by very cordial people that have always been generous to the nonresident. The residents of Gaspe are very friendy and helpful. It is a great place to spend a fishing holiday.

My fishing buddy and I have been able to build a quality salmon fishing trip to Gaspe, Quebec around 2 or 4 days of fishing in prime sectors we picked up in the preseason draw. The in-between times have been spent fishing the unlimited sectors. We always entered the 48-hour draws, but never had any luck. It's because their preseason draw has always treated residents and non residents equally, we have been able to do this. With the draw slanted 3 to 1 against us, we will be lucky to get 2 days at the end of August. My favorite, the St.-Jean River, is only available through the preseason and 48-hour draws. I'm not willing to travel to Gaspe, Quebec to fish for a week on the unlimited sectors in the Dartmouth and York rivers. I would just as soon fish the unlimited zone on the Matane, Madeleine and Matapedia, as they are closer to where I live. Nonresidents have had a good deal for a long time in Gaspe, and I just hate to lose it.
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  #25  
Old 01-16-2006, 03:09 PM
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Salar-1 Salar-1 is offline
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Earle
The 75/25 rule was/is proposed ONLY for a prime time period which is ,I believe 15/06 to 15/07. So we would be all equal for outside of this PROPOSAL.
Hey !!you and I started within one year of each other !
You mentioned quality fishing based around 2 or 4 days in prime sectors.We both know that You can give an absolute MINIMUM of casting lessons to ANYONE and put 'em on say Spuin and IF the fish haven't been spooked they'll easily raise a fish.In the case of my 14year old son it just happened to be a 27lb female !
Now take any Flyfisherman with a minimum of situation awareness and put him/her on most reserved sectors and they should nail a fish (Offie ,Spuin, Whitehouse ! That being said ,there are a few sectors where a guide/outfitter might be requiredWhere it DOES get interesting and where a guide/ outfitter is DEFINATELY needed on one's first visit is on public waters.A good knowledge base is definately required here. Also NOTHING really equates fishing with a good guide who will share his/her love of Salmon fishing. I've used 5 guides in the past and the two that REALLY stand out where the canoes were used . Another case where a guide would be needed would be to help a disabled fisherman who otherwisewouldn't beon the water.
BTW Green Ghost EXCELLENT post
Cheers
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  #26  
Old 01-16-2006, 07:09 PM
Muckle Salmon Muckle Salmon is offline
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Unhappy It would be a terrible shame

Quote:
Originally Posted by Earle Fletcher
I think the creation of the ZEC's by the Quebec Government was a good move to put the local people in charge of their rivers. I believe the ZEC in Gaspe, Quebec is especially well managed by very cordial people that have always been generous to the nonresident. The residents of Gaspe are very friendy and helpful. It is a great place to spend a fishing holiday.

I just hate to lose it.
Earle, you have expressed the sentiment of many of us who have been fortunate enough to enjoy the spectacular fishing of the rivers of the Gaspe'. Allthough only recently new to the Gaspe' (late 90's) it has become the much anticipated start to our Salmon fishing year. I have found that the people at the ZEC in Gaspe' have allways gone out of there way to be extremely helpful, especially to someone new to fishing in Quebec. On my first trip to the Gaspe' I will allways be thankful to Ann Smith for taking the time from her lunch hour to point out some productive water to us newcomers. When in the office I feel that the personnel share in the enjoyment of our successes and honestly have the best interest of the journeyman angler at heart. I see this in their opposition to the situation with regard to the extra rods allocated to outfitters this season and yet having this put upon them from what I believe is the exertion of political influence.
I just hope this all works out in the end as I would hate to loose all the Gaspe' has to offer me.

Ramsay
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  #27  
Old 01-20-2006, 10:34 AM
Salar36 Salar36 is offline
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If I understand well, non-resident are afraid to loose what residents lost to the profit of non-resident since couple years...
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  #28  
Old 01-20-2006, 06:47 PM
Earle Fletcher Earle Fletcher is offline
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Pierre, I was not aware of all the "hanky Panky" that was going on in some of the ZEC draws on behalf of the nonresidents. I want you to know I did not take part in any of this "funny business". It's too bad there are some people who are always taking advantage of the "loop holes" at the expense of the general public. I realize you have an impact on the policies of the Quebec Government's administration of their Atlantic salmon rivers, and I hate to see you have such a sour attitude towards nonresident fishermen because of a few greedy individuals.
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  #29  
Old 01-20-2006, 11:05 PM
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Salar-1 Salar-1 is offline
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Earle
Don't worry. I'll speak for 99.999999 % of Qc's salmon fisherfolk and we do not, in any way, have bad feeling towards residents. Don't forget the Salmon fishing community is small and word gets around on unsavory deals.the overloading thingy was known for quite awhile until just that that little drop oveflowed the cup and the **** hit the fan !
Unfortunately a few people on either side of the story got dragged in and more than one friendship was lost.
Cheers
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  #30  
Old 01-22-2006, 06:03 PM
Salar36 Salar36 is offline
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Earle,

Make no mistake about my attitude. I have nothing against non-resident, and in fact I always defended position which is not radical. But when I read some comment like "without a limited rod sector, I will not go in Gaspe and they will lose my money"...This is the same thing for resident in Quebec province, the are enough to take all the water, a dollar is a dollar, if Quebec resident can't spend it here, they will spend elsewhere...so the net balance is exactly the same. As David Bishop has already mentioned, the opportunity to fish water outside our own country or province is a privilege, not a right. I would be great if it was clearly understood.
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