HELP - Making a Skagit Line from a Wind Cutter - Fly Fishing Forum
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Old 11-26-2005, 03:56 PM
skip_scratch skip_scratch is offline
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HELP - Making a Skagit Line from a Wind Cutter

Hello

I read somewhere once that you can make a skagit line from a Wind Cutter by cutting TIP2 so it is only 5 feet long. So do I cut 10 feet off of the front (narrow) part of tip 2 and use the remaining or do I cut 10 feet off of the back (wide) part of tip 2 and use that?
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Old 11-26-2005, 04:53 PM
shotgunner shotgunner is offline
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stay of execution.....

a few bucks would get you a set of cheaters, saving tip two from the axe.
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Old 11-26-2005, 05:37 PM
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Old 11-26-2005, 05:55 PM
skip_scratch skip_scratch is offline
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still no serious answer ....

you'd think that with all the "talent" displayed in this forum someone could please help me out
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Old 11-26-2005, 07:02 PM
Gillie Gillie is offline
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Get a Airflo skagit. They are much nicer lines than the Rio. They are also longer. Depending on the size they are 32.5 to 35 feet long vs. the 27 ft Rio. I attach anywhere from 5 to 13 feet of T14 to these lines without cheaters. 5 is tricky to cast because it is easy to pull the small anchor. Less than 5 you have to involve a cheater system, but for me I rarely fish less than 7 feet and this hangs off one of these bad boys just perfectly. When I do a tip less 5 feet or less I use custom spliced tips rather than a cheater system with additional loops. They also cast with a nicer feel.

Gillie
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Old 11-26-2005, 08:30 PM
skip_scratch skip_scratch is offline
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.... but

Guys thanks for all your responses - I'm not planning to purchase anything.

I have some T10, a RIO windcutter multi and an old 10WF. I'm gonna hack and try and make a skagitized setup.

If I'm gonna purchase cheaters or Airflo skagit lines or purchase ... whatever its a 3 week wait for the stuff to get shipped to me. None of the local shops would have any of your suggestions in stock.

So given what i have now any suggestions on how to chop up the windcutter and what pieces to use?

Thanks for any reply

/s
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Old 11-26-2005, 08:45 PM
skip_scratch skip_scratch is offline
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forgot to ask

... what is a "cheater" actually cheating?
it is weight, length or something else?

why/how does a cheater work - anyone know?
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Old 11-26-2005, 08:49 PM
SSPey SSPey is offline
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which windcutter do you have (3 # designation)?
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Old 11-27-2005, 05:44 AM
skip_scratch skip_scratch is offline
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the 8/9/10
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Old 11-27-2005, 07:58 AM
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BLACK FRANCIS BLACK FRANCIS is offline
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skip,
i have lines in stock in your area pm if you want details.

anyway if you take your w/c remove the tip section and put on some t-14 it will work just fine. the idea is to have the belly of the taper go right into the sink tip material. this will transfer the energy to the tip more efficiently than anything with a front taper. if you really want to get creative splice t-14 onto a section of floater (that 10wt you mentioned) that is a length of floater and t-14 that will come to 15' in length. i.e. 5' of t14 spliced to 10' of floater=15' of tip. 10' of t14 spliced to 5' of floater=15' of tip. this way you are casting the same head length of line with varying sink amounts. it sounds more complicated than it is. if you do an archive search you will find this discussed at lenght even with splicing directions.

if you are in the western ny area as your header says let me know and i will do my best to get set up with a good fishing rig for this area. pm if interested there are people in this area that have figured most of this out already and would be happy to help keep someone from the dark side of bobber and egg fly dead drifting we need as many people on our team as possible! good luck.
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Old 11-27-2005, 08:00 AM
peter-s-c peter-s-c is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skip_scratch
... what is a "cheater" actually cheating?
it is weight, length or something else?

why/how does a cheater work - anyone know?
A "cheater" is Rio's name for a short Tip 2. Basically, by cutting your Tip 2 into two pieces, you're creating two cheaters. I wouldn't cut up a multi-tip as there's already enough loops in it but if you insist . . .

Working from the back end, cut it at the 5' mark, leaving a 5' thicker taper and a 10' thinner taper. Then cut your T-14 into 5', 10' and 15' lengths. Use the 15' T-14 right off the belly, the 10' section off the 5' "cheater", and the 5' section off the 10' "cheater" This allows you to work with a constant head length of about 40' no matter what combination you're using.

For finer adjustments, get hold of some 12 wt. floater belly and T-14 or a 10 wt. floater belly and T-10 to make up a set of tips using this formula. The T-14 must be used with at least a 12 wt. floater belly to ensure decent turnover. The sinking tip can't be heavier than the floater section on a grains per foot basis.
  • 10' of floater front taper for a floating tip
  • 8' of floater spliced to 2' of T-14 or T-10
  • 6' of floater spliced to 4' of T-14 or T-10
  • 4' of floater spliced to 6' of T-14 or T-10
  • 2' of floater spliced to 8' of T-14 or T-10
  • and 10' of T-14 or 10

With this set of 10' tips, plus the five foot cheater and the other tips, you'll be able to challenge most of the water situations around here.

If you go to the bother of making a set of 10' tips, I would recommend the Airflo head as it does a very nice job and there's no cheaters to mess with.

Last edited by peter-s-c; 11-27-2005 at 08:02 AM.
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Old 11-27-2005, 11:15 AM
skip_scratch skip_scratch is offline
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.. a thought

instead of cutting tip2 Peter would just adding 5ft of 12wt to the set of custom tips you list Peter negate the need for a cheater and possibly save tip2?
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Old 11-27-2005, 11:27 AM
SSPey SSPey is offline
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A lot of the Windcutters and Skagit lines have belly mass greater than a 12 wt.

However, the 8/9/10 belly is between 11 and 12 wt line. Use a level section of 11 wt line instead of the cheater.
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Old 11-27-2005, 12:00 PM
peter-s-c peter-s-c is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SSPey
A lot of the Windcutters and Skagit lines have belly mass greater than a 12 wt.

However, the 8/9/10 belly is between 11 and 12 wt line. Use a level section of 11 wt line instead of the cheater.
Two problems with that: Using the data on the Rio website, the 8/9/10 belly comes out to about 14 grains per foot and the typical 12 wt. is also around 14 so a 12 wt. would be fine. Also, if you drop down to an 11 wt. then you're trying to turn over T-14 at 14 grains per foot with a piece of line that runs a little over12 grains per foot.

In prior Windcutter discussions, there's been a lot of variance in Windcutter belly dimensions and weights. If you can, weigh and measure your WC belly. If the weight in grains divided by the length in feet comes out to around 14, then you're OK with a 12 wt.

A WC 8/9/10 looped to a 12 wt. line spliced to T-14, in grains per foot terms, is essentially level line. This probably won't be the nicest casting rig. While no doubt thousands of West Coast anglers happily chuck T-14 and medium-sized, lead weighted chickens with their 8/9/10s, a T-10 setup would probably handle nicer.

If you're fishing the Catt, I can't see T-14 be a "necessity" unless your fishing when it's high and murky. Airflo Custom Cut 200 tips are equivalent to T-10 if you can't find any. Ideally you want the belly section to be thicker and heavier than the tips to ensure good turnover and the reduce the need for you to force the cast. T-10 tips + 10 wt. floater section would definitely handle nicer.

I run 9' T-10 tips on my 7/8 Dredger and 10' T-14 tips on my 9/10 Dredger. I tried heavier stuff on the 7/8 and it was ugly. You will be able to handle T-14 with the 8/9/10 but there are probably better choices.

Last edited by peter-s-c; 11-27-2005 at 12:02 PM.
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Old 11-27-2005, 12:34 PM
SSPey SSPey is offline
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Peter, nice to see you've still got that fighting spirit.

I have cut, weighed, and spliced 2 different WC 8/9/10 lines. Not a lot, but better than nothing, better than theory and better than published specs.

I recommend to use an 11 wt level cheater off the belly, then 10 wt tips. A 10 wt tip will turn over the largest of flies.

The 8/9/10 can turn over 12 wt and 14 wt stuff, but its clunky, even with good technique. Forcing a square peg (T-14) into a round hole (WC 8/9/10 belly) will work if you jam it hard enough. THis is supposed to be easy and effective.

out
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