windcutter 7/8/9 line does it suck? - Fly Fishing Forum
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Old 10-03-2005, 08:32 AM
snoryder snoryder is offline
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windcutter 7/8/9 line does it suck?

Hey guys, I just bought the windcutter line. I haven't tried it yet, waiting for my new reel. I got a good deal on it but I'm not sure if its the line for me. I'm in Southern Ontario, so we don't have the deep heavy waters like out west so I"m not using the heavy sink tips. I bought the floating line, no tips. Will this line cast these tips or no, I've heard they don't and I have to do some cutting, which I really don't want to do. My old mastery line casting 15 ft sinking tips well, will this windcutter do the same? Also heard I have to strip line in if I have the whole head out, which is short at 55 ft. I guess its enough, but its getting cold, and who wants wet hands in November. I was thinking of buying the XLT, found a really good deal on them. You think this would be better and would I have to cut the front end off to throw sinking tips? or just add them to the end with no surgery?

And one more thing, Does the 7/8/9 windcutter even work well with my GL3 8/9?

Thanks
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  #2  
Old 10-03-2005, 08:51 AM
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juro juro is offline
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Windcutter is a great line and is responsible for more north american spey-hooked fish than any other I'd bet. Very versatile.

Best advice I can give you is to bring it to the Cattaraugus River Spey Clave on the 15-16th October. You might get lucky and get some good answers online but you'll get the very best answers at the clave first hand.

In general, you need to cut the line at 15ft from the tip, then loop it up so it can be re-linked anytime. Then you can use any of the standard WC tips with it with confidence.
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Old 10-03-2005, 10:48 AM
peter-s-c peter-s-c is offline
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The Windcutter floater isn't very useful for our waters unless you cut it and loop it for tips. There are some places where it will work fine as is, but generally no. The old version of the Windcutter floater wouldn't even turn over a 10' Polyleader decently without cutting back, let alone a 15' tip. I don't know if the new version of the WC floater is any better in this regard, but I wouldn't think any improvement would be big enough to handle tips and Polyleaders without cutting back.

You also need room to let the line work. You probably know what used to be the willow tree pool on the Credit off of Burnamthorpe. I tried using my uncut WC 9/10/11 + a 10' T-3 Polyleader on that pool and the length of the rig in that confined space wouldn't let me get the belly out of the guides. The result was awful. Cutting back not only enables you to turnover tips but also reduces the range problem as you'll find it easier to work the belly out of the guides in confined areas. You may find your old Mastery to be a superior fishing line if you're working shorter ranges. I also had an old Mastery 8/9 on another rod and found it much easier to work on the Credit vs. the Windcutter.

Forget the XLT unless you plan on hunting down Atlantics on the east coast. It's a pretty useless line for our waters (I know, I had one) unless you hack off 25' and stick tips on it. There is not a chance for an uncut XLT to turnover tips.

The GL3 8/9 has a pretty soft, lively tip section so if you cast that line off of the tip, it should fly really nicely. The GL3 isn't the ballsiest rod out there so underlining it a bit won't hurt provided you work just the upper section of the rod. I have a rod with a similar bend profile as the GL3, only stiffer throughout. It's a 10 wt. yet it could cast my 7/8/9 very, very nicely working just the top half of the rod.
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Old 10-03-2005, 11:08 AM
snoryder snoryder is offline
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Thanks, man I hate this, I just want to buy something and work. So now I have to cut line and attach loops, which I don't like especially when you have a fish on and your bringing those loops through your guides.

Peter, I did buy the old windcutter, I guess I got a good deal, Can I buy the interchangeable tips from RIO?

I am thinking about going to the Catt Clave, I missed the grand river clave, I need some info soon.

What glue do you guys use to cover these loop connecters or do you use the shrink wrap. Which would be the slickest?

thanks guys

Last edited by snoryder; 10-03-2005 at 11:16 AM.
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Old 10-03-2005, 12:26 PM
peter-s-c peter-s-c is offline
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I've wasted enough money on buying the wrong stuff for our water, to stock a fly shop. PM me anytime if you want to review gear for our rivers.

Buying the braided Cortland stuff and making your own loops is the cheapest way but if you're buying factory made loops, stay away from the Cortland versions as they make their loops way too small, producing a clump that'll catch on every guide. The Fenwicks (Airflo loops in disguise) are the best as the loop is fairly large so it smooths down when linked. Don't worry about hinging.

Throw away the heat shrink. Slide the loop all the way onto the tip of the line, making sure the tip gets into the doubled section of the loop. Using 10 lb. mono or similar, nail knot the braided sleeve as close as possible to the end of it as you can get. This permanently locks the sleeve and it'll never pull off. Trim off the straggly bits of the sleeve then whip finish over the knot using 3/0 thread. If you want to improve the stiffness, whip finish over the joint between the fly line tip and the doubled over section of the loop as this part can wear if it bends too much. Use either Aquaseal thinned with toluene or Fabric-Tak thinned with acetone to seal the whippings. This loop arrangement will slide through guides very nicely, won't come off and should last as long as the line.

I can post a picture if you like.

You can buy the 15' tips from Rio, individually or as a set.

Last edited by peter-s-c; 10-03-2005 at 12:29 PM.
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Old 10-03-2005, 01:08 PM
peter-s-c peter-s-c is offline
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If you can find an old WC 9/10/11 floater . . .

at a cheap price . . . .

Cut 15' off the front, loop it and put it in your leader wallet. Cut 9' off the next section and throw that piece in a drawer. Loop the blunt section of taper on the end of the belly and connect it to the 15' front section of the floater, any 15' tip, 10'-14' Polyleaders, or chunks of T-14, and you're in business for your rod, pretty well anywhere in the GL region (except the Niagara).

This modified WC essentially becomes a Loop Adapted shooting head system at a much reduced price. It produces an overall head length of about 45' - 46' long that is roughly equivalent to the Loop system for a rod in the 14' to 15' range. The profile of the belly tapers is also close to the Loop as it too, is blunt both front and rear. Being relatively short, it'll load up quickly at short ranges yet it can deliver about a 100' cast as it has the grains to load your rod into the butt. Retaining a bit of the taper in the front of the belly reduces the clunkiness of such a short, thick section of line. Did this with my WC 9/10/11 and turned it from a dud into a gem.

Last edited by peter-s-c; 10-03-2005 at 01:10 PM.
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Old 10-03-2005, 01:40 PM
snoryder snoryder is offline
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Cool, hey man we have to hook up one day before the season gets going. I should be getting my new reel next week, I'm hoping it comes this week, cause I did have a weekend of fishing planned. I'm not taking out my float reel again, I was bored last week with it.

And ya, I'd rather an experienced person tie these loops, unless you know of a good website where I can learn how to tie them, I'm more than willing to try I guess.

thanks
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Old 10-03-2005, 02:04 PM
peter-s-c peter-s-c is offline
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I'll probably be fishing Caledonia on the 10th -- it's one of the few places where an uncut Windcutter floater will function well. If you can make it out there, look on the west bank, between the dam and the bridge, for a silver Golf TDI and a short, dumpy guy waving a big stick in the middle of the river.

I can show you the looping method there if you wish.

Speypages has lots of stuff on making loops but most are more involved than what I've mentioned. If you don't mind a bit of weed catching the nail knot occasionally, you can dispense with the whippings.

BTW, I can bring along some shooting heads and Skagit heads that'll work on your rod, just so you can see some different setups.

Last edited by peter-s-c; 10-03-2005 at 02:16 PM.
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Old 10-03-2005, 02:50 PM
snoryder snoryder is offline
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I may be able to get out then, I don't think I get my reel till then, I'm really hoping it comes by the end of the week. I planned on fishing the Catt this long weekend. I'll keep in touch.
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Old 10-03-2005, 02:58 PM
peter-s-c peter-s-c is offline
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Got a report this morning on the Catt and it's slow so far. Hopefully it'll pick up by the weekend for you. I have a spare reel or two if you want to test drive some stuff on Monday.
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Old 10-03-2005, 03:13 PM
snoryder snoryder is offline
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I was there on Saturday, fished the reserve @ the corn fields. It wasn't that good. I hooked into 3, biggest being about 10 lbs. I expected more, since I was using my float gear. My friends were swinging, they got into some fish, but yes it was slow. I've been fishing the Catt the past 3 weeks and its been slow. I should of been fishing the Notty. Oh well, I was practising my casting the other 2 weekends.

I just sold my other reel, thats why I have none. Anything happening yet at the Grand? I can't wait to start fishing there, its only 45 minutes from my house, I can save a lot on gas and you have the room for some distance cast, which you probably don't need to do but its fun trying.
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Old 10-03-2005, 03:18 PM
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juro juro is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snoryder
And ya, I'd rather an experienced person tie these loops, unless you know of a good website where I can learn how to tie them, I'm more than willing to try I guess.

thanks
Personal preferences not withstanding, I am partial to the loops I've been using for about 20 yrs now and based on the number of approving friends I have to say they are worth mentioning. Super-easy to build. Right here on the forum, just click here:

http://flyfishingforum.com/expertise.../tipsystem.htm

Currently working on a new system with the help of a member who sparked off some new ideas... but this one has been my choice for about 20 yrs or so.
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  #13  
Old 10-03-2005, 03:27 PM
peter-s-c peter-s-c is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snoryder
I just sold my other reel, thats why I have none. Anything happening yet at the Grand? I can't wait to start fishing there, its only 45 minutes from my house, I can save a lot on gas and you have the room for some distance cast, which you probably don't need to do but its fun trying.
I'm about 10 minutes from Caledonia so it's obviously my first choice -- very slow right now.

When you get your rig together and before you start slicing and dicing, a weighted fly on a long leader cast slightly upstream in moderate or slower currents, followed by a couple of upstream mends to sink it, can get sufficiently deep to have a decent shot at fish. It certainly a pleasant way to get some mileage out of the floater before you start doing the line surgery thing.
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Old 10-03-2005, 03:27 PM
snoryder snoryder is offline
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Thanks juro!
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  #15  
Old 10-03-2005, 07:15 PM
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BLACK FRANCIS BLACK FRANCIS is offline
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Or you could just go to a shop buy a clouser line in an 11 wt put a sinking leader on the pre-looped end and go fishing. with a 12 ft rio sinking leader and the 40.5' head on the clouser gets out to about 55' at the fly which is nice for your area and the big creek in NY. works well with a floating or intermidiate leader as well.

the loop method Juro describes is easier than it looks and will pull a car.

just a different aproach and my 2 centavos.
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