Simms Price Fixing???? - Fly Fishing Forum
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  #1  
Old 06-24-2005, 01:15 AM
xcellheli xcellheli is offline
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Simms Price Fixing????

I have been shopping around for Simms G3 waders and have been to about 50 different sites/retailers and everyone is $425. Has Simms fixed the price at the dealers?

If so this type of practice is not good for consumers. Oakley sunglasses has done this for years. Forbidding dealers from choosing the selling price.

I can afford the waters at $425, but we are talking principal here. Take just about any other cosumer product and you will find a 10-20% variance in price among different retailers.

Has anyone found a retailer that will give any discount off of retail for G3's, even if it is only $10?
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  #2  
Old 06-24-2005, 01:17 AM
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sean sean is offline
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Welcome to fly fishing. Everybody sets prices. Simms is not in the minority.

-sean
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  #3  
Old 06-24-2005, 11:29 AM
Steve_sullivan Steve_sullivan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xcellheli
I have been shopping around for Simms G3 waders and have been to about 50 different sites/retailers and everyone is $425. Has Simms fixed the price at the dealers?

If so this type of practice is not good for consumers. Oakley sunglasses has done this for years. Forbidding dealers from choosing the selling price.

I can afford the waters at $425, but we are talking principal here. Take just about any other cosumer product and you will find a 10-20% variance in price among different retailers.

Has anyone found a retailer that will give any discount off of retail for G3's, even if it is only $10?

Why buy simms anyways? Buy ll bean wicked tough waders. They are 5 layer goretech like simms, only they have a lot longer warranty (to have your waders repaired for free), and are only $300.

PS: yes, simms is price fixing, but so is Sage, TFO, basically everyone. Since they havent got zinged for it I guess the anti competition laws dont apply to them??
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Old 06-24-2005, 11:30 AM
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MJC MJC is offline
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Buy a pair of D. Bailey's.
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Old 06-24-2005, 10:56 PM
xcellheli xcellheli is offline
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I don't actually fly fish, nothing against the sport, but I am kind of glad after seeing the price fixing in the industry. I take a 5 day salmon trip every year in Alaska. We wear the waders from morning till night, then put them away until next year.

I had Dan Baily's and they lasted 3 trips until the seam at the boot started to leak. I then bought a $200 pair from LL Bean (not gortex, but well shielded with 5 layers) and they lasted 2 trips until the hind end seam started to leak.

I know I could patch things with Aqua Seal, but I am there to fish, not chase leaks. Most opinions that I have read is that the Simms will last the longest before leaking. I just want a pair that will stand up to more than 15 days of fishing without developing seam leaks. I have never punctured or torn a pair of waders, all leaks have been very slow weeping at a seam.

I am almost to a point of buying a pair or two of cheap Bass Pro or Cabelas waders at $80 and just disposing of them at the end of each trip. I have never had a pair leak on the maiden trip.
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Old 06-25-2005, 10:49 AM
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There is nothing wrong with the Simms line. They seem to be the benchmark that all others brands are judged by. Patagonias are also right up there in quality I just feel the Baileys are as good as the previous two brands for less money.

No matter the cost there will always be some pairs of waders that leak and there will always be a lot of lesser priced waders that go a long time with no trouble.

You would probably get a lot more use from your waders if you used them continuously. In the situation you describe I think your last idea is a very good one.
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Old 06-25-2005, 01:56 PM
Eddie Eddie is offline
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There is an in depth discussion on the subject of "discounting". What is "good for the consumer" is debatable. Do a search on this site.
As for some of the alternatives mentioned: Cabellas, LL Bean and Bas Pro waders are not offered at -10-20%.
If you want the best, it costs $425. If you can afford the best, why bite your nose off to spite your face?
I am sorry that you don't fly fish. It is alot of fun.
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Old 06-27-2005, 12:23 AM
xcellheli xcellheli is offline
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Thanks for the comments guys. Someday I will fly fish, it looks like fun, my buddy has caught salmon fly fishing standing next to me in Alaska and fighting on those spindly rods is a real kick. The up side is that I land 4 fish to his one on lures. I also fish Northern Pike and have been curious if thay would bite a large leach similar to the salmon on a fly rod.

I do understand LL Bean, Cabelas and Bass Pro do not discount, but the main difference is that they are the only retailer for their goods. Simms on the other hand sells mostly through dealers and that's why I question the price fixing. Usually dealers will play with margins to compete against other stores.
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Old 06-29-2005, 07:22 PM
Steve_sullivan Steve_sullivan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddie
There is an in depth discussion on the subject of "discounting". What is "good for the consumer" is debatable. Do a search on this site.
As for some of the alternatives mentioned: Cabellas, LL Bean and Bas Pro waders are not offered at -10-20%.
If you want the best, it costs $425. If you can afford the best, why bite your nose off to spite your face?
I am sorry that you don't fly fish. It is alot of fun.
How do you defend your position that 5 layer goretech simms are better than 5 layer goretech ll bean?
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Old 06-30-2005, 12:05 PM
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Willie Gunn Willie Gunn is offline
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Consider yourself lucky to live in the USA you could be paying almost btwice that in the UK.

Buy Guides rather than G3s much nicer and better wearing IMHO
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  #11  
Old 06-30-2005, 12:56 PM
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pescaphile pescaphile is offline
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Having owned both the guide model and the G3s, I must agree with WG. The guide model is the Simms wader to get.

That said, my next waders will be Dan Bailey's.
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  #12  
Old 07-01-2005, 07:53 AM
Count Count is offline
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My thought is that you get what you pay for. Buy the best and be done with it. Simms makes the best waders in the world and their customer service is absolutely first-class. I agree that they're expensive, but so is everything these days.

My Simms guide waders are the absolute best investment I've ever made in my fly-fishing career.

I'd like to try the G3 models, but my guide-weights haven't worn out yet. I do like the thought of integrated gravel guards and handwarmer pockets. But in checking them out at the stores, I like the feel of my guides better. They feel like silk gloves.
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Old 07-01-2005, 04:24 PM
Eddie Eddie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_sullivan
How do you defend your position that 5 layer goretech simms are better than 5 layer goretech ll bean?
I'm not sure that I said that the Sims waders were better than the LLBean waders. But I think that they are. My Sims waders seem to last longer and my buddies that had Beans waders switched over to Sims.

In fact Beans replaced my friends LLBean waders with Sims waders. LLBeans has customer service that is hard to beat.
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Old 07-01-2005, 09:27 PM
ashbourn ashbourn is offline
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Its called unilateral pricing. A company can call it that and they use the excuse that they dont want other stores to take advantage of customers. Bose is a great example, I worked at the very large retail store for 9 months and a few times got to talk to the Bose rep. Not one item could be discounted even if it was a open box, now this may sound weird but we have a agreement with Bose they we can send back any unit and we will get full credit. Dan Bailey has been known to do the samething. It is something that can not be helped too much because all they have to do is delay your shipment so the guy down the road gets the new products first or you can never keep a good stock. This ruins customer loyalty, as much as lower prices can bring in alot of customers if you dont have what they are looking for then you will lose to them to the shop that always has stock.
Where does the fault lie???
Well lets take Simms, they are at fault for trying to fix their prices and forcing it on the dealer. Its one thing to have a MSRP but to make it a set price is wrong. They will lose some dealers and customers but this does not seem to have hurt them too much yet.
And the dealer, WTF is with them??? A good shop will not take that from a company and if they do then have it for custom order only. I have a small shop and distributer got on us about out prices not being at MSRP, we responed with Suggested Retail Price, we did not like the Suggestion and marked some things up and others down. I have a dealer catalog that says that all items of some brands that I will not name must be priced at MSRP. There are ways around it like free items with or another item at a discount as long as the price of the brand does not change.
But there is one good thing, not a very good one but a good thing. If every shop has the same prices people will shop at the shop they like because of the service or the quality. As good as this sounds there are "evil" people, that do take advantage.

Sorry for the long winded response just a fav subject
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Old 07-02-2005, 12:47 AM
Eddie Eddie is offline
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"If every shop has the same prices people will shop at the shop they like because of the service or the quality."

And that, in a nut shell, is why set prices is good for the sport of flyfishing.
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