No coffee, but a rainbow at Whites - Page 2 - Fly Fishing Forum
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  #16  
Old 11-23-2000, 01:38 AM
isoh isoh is offline
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RE:No coffee, but a rainbow at Whites

Thanks, Jared.

What is it about New England trout that makes them so sluggish?? When I lived in Colorado, even the stockers in the lakes and reservoirs were feisty right up until the ice formed.

Whatever it was I caught last weekend <i>did</i> fight hard, but the 'bows have been real lumps.
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  #17  
Old 11-25-2000, 03:06 PM
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juro juro is offline
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RE:No coffee, but a rainbow at Whites

Might be because of optimal temps; rainbows have a higher optimum temp preference than brookies, etc. Also could be hatchery brood. Wild rainbows fight like the dickens!

Per the tiger trout - good call, very likely. I remember catching them in Scargo in Dennis, always big. Some of the ones I caught were colored like lake trout - kind of gray/purple. The squiggly patterns (vermiculations) were distinct. The biologist in Westboro (when I used to work in Westboro) told me that because they waste zero effort in a spawn phase the triploids (sterile hybrids) grow much faster than true breeds.

My opinion (and you know what they say about opinions) is that we shouldn't play genesis games with fish. I am still burned up about the introduction of whirling disease to the US thru the brown trout, which were brought to the US from europe.

Even rainbows were indigenous to the western US and eastern Russia (Kamchatka,etc); since introduced worldwide. They have recently been re-classified as pacific salmon genus - which I feel is bull#### but I ain't no biologist.

Northeastern native brookies (which is actually a char) have since been brought to nearly every corner of the world too.

The distribution of lake trout (another char) is interesting - they are widely distributed but not by trucks. It is believed that they are a very old species that was widely distributed in pre-ice age waters, and unlike the newer trout species it survived the ice age. Other species have evolved since then, in fact salmonids evolve quickly thus the diversity in strains of the same species in different locales.

On a related note, I am getting curious about the coastal trout that are found along the north shore... stray atlantics? Native searun brookies? Stocked searun browns?

It would do my soul good to see a native searun brook trout!
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  #18  
Old 11-27-2000, 08:16 AM
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Lefty Lefty is offline
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RE:No coffee, but a rainbow at Whites

Juro say:
"<b>I am still burned up about the introduction of whirling disease to the US thru the brown trout, which were brought to the US from europe."</b>

Ease up there. This was presumably done in a time when we were doing a lot worse in our national ignorance like: stealing indian lands, building dams on salmon rivers, and we hadn't evan got to DDT yet. How about the Eugenics movement? The addition of German Browns was done for what was thought to be a good reason. It wasn't, in the long run, but we're stuck with it. If you want to be really pissed about something get mad about the loss of open spaces. Pretty soon there will be only state parks and Audobon land left, sans wild trout. South Eastern Ma. is under a total assault from development (as is all of Ma.) The american way is to have no regulation or intervention on property development, at the peril of wildlife. We are boobs.

Re: Searun anadromous fish on the No. Shore- wanna poke around the Parker?

Terry
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  #19  
Old 11-27-2000, 09:43 AM
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RE:No coffee, but a rainbow at Whites

Terry I hold firm to my opinion on browns - WD was recently found on the eastern edge of native steelhead country and if it prospers in the pacific northwest the effect may be unthinkable. I can't bear to imagine it really.

With all respect, I do not think the reasons were good - sportsman's indulgence is not a good reason by my way of thinking.

What really makes me nuclear is when people say "we will bio-engineer a resistant strain of trout". That's about as valid as timber being "a renewable resource". The physical trees may be regrown but old growth (native) trees in the PNW are 750-1000 yrs old or more, and we have never renewed but one of these treasures. In fact we are into second, third even forth growth forests which are too densely planted with one type of tree that causes explosions in timber eating insects (triggered by single species density) and ends up destroying entire forests in it's wake. The clearcutting methods destroy spawning habitat and increase siltation in river systems that can choke entire year classes of salmonids. Angling pressure takes its toll, commercial takes many times the toll - but extinction comes from things we do to habitat and things we do to mess with the natural balance of nature.

<font size="4">I COULD GO POSTAL!</font><!--4-->

There is and will never be another chance to have wild steelhead on this lonely blue planet in the cosmos. No factory trout could ever take it's place. This applies to all indigenous animals but few as emphatically as a warrior trout who ventures up to 7000 miles of open north pacific sea with orcas and sealions in pursuit to find it's natal stream and perpetuate it's legacy.

I am truly fearful of what WD will mean to native species in the west.
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  #20  
Old 11-27-2000, 09:58 AM
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RE:No coffee, but a rainbow at Whites

Juro, I respect your opinion and passion on the subject. Wow. Glad I got your juices flowing. Maybe I'll learn something.
My concern is to not fall into the modern trap of judging past mistakes by todays newfound attitudes. We simply did not have the understanding of how ecosystems operated back then. The biological information was not there. The real question is: have we learned from that mistake? Are we still perpetuating this mistake with stocking programs? I don't know. Nevertheless, I doubt we can extricate the Browns from No. America at this point. I understand your anger, but what are the possible action items? Is there a way to battle WD? Maybe the board could throw some small contribution towards that end.
I'd rather fight strip malls from stealing the last bit of trout water left. The age of planned development must come. It's not about AL Gore and Suburban Sprawl, it's about saving the traditions of hunting and fishing from Trophy Homes and strip Malls, along with all the other benfits of open spaces.

Terry
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