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Stripers and Coastal Gamefish Stripers, Blues, Inshore tuna!

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  #1  
Old 05-17-2005, 09:37 PM
JimW JimW is offline
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Lines for Atlantis

I've got the orvis 12wt floating shooting head which I can sometimes cast OK and I think it's great for practicing with. I also have an AirFlo ST11-S7 which is an 11wt 35' head, would I be better off with the 12wt?

I guess if I have to choose between the two for the clave the sinker would be way to go but I would like to try a clear intermediate preferable in a full line as the shooting heads are not really my cup of tea. I've used a Rio 11wt but it does not even begin to load the rod, is a 12wt going to help me put a bend in it?
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  #2  
Old 05-17-2005, 10:03 PM
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juro juro is offline
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Jim -

I can't tell you how excited I am about two new lines from Airflo and Rio this year for Atlantis owners.

Tim Rajeff has been working hard for months getting the right casting and shooting head on the end of the best running line I've used in practical fishing applications - the Striper 2Hander line in 12wt. It comes in an intermediate and fast sinking configuration. The final version got a lot of reps at the San Francisco casting pools in some very capable hands as well as laymen casters and the reports were the same - IT ROCKS. This line is available now, just as the cherry blossoms bloom

Recently Rio has produced a prototype for this application called the Outbound, which is still in refinement. I've been fortunate to test this line and it's also really phenomenal! I would recommend an 11wt for the Surf-tamer if you like to feel the loop but the 12wt will work on it as well.

I hope to have samples of both of these lines available at the spring clave for Atlantis owners interested in taking them for a test drive.

Just let me know ahead of time so I can spool them up on a reel for you.
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Old 05-17-2005, 10:09 PM
grizz0707 grizz0707 is offline
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Hi Juro,
I will see you saturday will leave pa at 1pm and would to try out the lines will fish sunday and monday
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Old 05-18-2005, 07:00 AM
JimW JimW is offline
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It would be great just to be able to give it a toss at the cookout if that's possible - I don't need as much room as you do - Yet.
So back to the AirFlo shooting head I have now. Would I have been better off with a 12wt?
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Old 05-18-2005, 07:50 AM
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juro juro is offline
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I think so, but we'll give it a toss to see. Some lines will load it best in 11wt, others 12wt - and if you go with spey lines even an 8/9 will load it depending on the line design

Best thing to keep in mind is that for the best results all-around (including fishability) stay between 35 ad 40 ft of head length and in the 500 grain range where some shorter lines load it well at 475 grains and longer lines can be up to 625 gr. The longer the line, the more grains a particular rod can carry.

Side note:

When I was working on twohand technique I under-loaded the rod by 2-3 weights and kept working on it until I could shoot the whole line. This took about 4 practice sessions, but it did a lot for my two-hand overhead casting ability.

A heavier line gives the caster easy distance but if overloaded the feel is more of weight transfer than the dynamics of generating the line wave which I really enjoy.

It sounds like you are considering an exchange, if so then yes go for the 12wt - but if you are 'stuck' with it working out with it might prove to be an advantageous exercise.

.02
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Old 05-18-2005, 09:47 PM
omykiss omykiss is offline
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Juro,
I'm new to the Atlantis as well. I have it line with a SA running line and a Rio 30' shooting head )12 wt.) Would you get noticably more distance with a mono running line? And what is an average casting distance one can expect with this set up?
Thanks,
Marvin
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Old 05-18-2005, 10:37 PM
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If you search the extensive discussions you will find that most feel that 35-40ft of head is best for this type of fishing. 30ft runs out of runway with the distances acheivable with two-hand power. Try to find something a little longer if you find the loop blows up after a certain distance, say 95ft or something.

With a 30ft head I would say you should fish 90-95ft maybe 100ft all day without much work depending on your casting. To get an extra 20-30ft, I would opt for the longer head length and practice, practice, practice. As far as distance... it's more a function of casting ability than equipment, but with a 38ft head you should hit 100 with a fundamentally good cast, 120 with an improved cast, and 140-150 with specialized running lines and longer heads and excellent tracking. 160ft and more is not out of the question with 45-55 ft heads with time and practice, but these are not as practical for fishing strip retrieved flies in surf or sea. Stick to the 120ft goal for fishing the beach.

Per casting, the most common mistake is over-deflecting the rod by hitting it too hard with the brute force of two arms countering or pulling the bottom hand too early. As Simon G says, dont' turn that tip over in a circular path by pulling the bottom hand inward prematurely - get the rod pulling the line tight at the starting angle (where the backcast stopped) using the bottom hand only at the end of the stroke before the stop, locking the upper arm solid at the final position which is a higher angle than a single hand stroke stop point.

It's a little tricky because these rods are only 11ft long... but all it really takes is to learn to relax a little. It's a far better fishing tool than a 15ft rod on the beach, and with a little tuning in the casting distances are more than one would care to manage in a stripping basket.

Practice, practice, practice - it comes natural after a while. All two-handed casters whether spey or overhead eventually find that it's effortless to make working casts with both hands involved. It's only hard work until one learns to relax and let the rod do the work.

Good luck!
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Old 05-19-2005, 10:12 AM
JimW JimW is offline
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I think I am starting to get it. I put in a short practice session at the ball field before switching over to being a pitching machine for my daughter's softball batting practice. Apparently the idea there is to hit line drives at the pitcher and I make a good target, but I digress.
After 20 or so casts/attempts I fired out a couple that gave a good tug on the reel. I am still in the process of figuring out just what I did correctly but can now see the potential of these rods. Practice, Practice, Practice.
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Old 05-19-2005, 01:08 PM
Jazzman Jazzman is offline
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FYI, the Airflo 12 wt. heads in intermediate and DI3 are both in the 470 grain range -- I weighed them and the Rajeff sports site confirms those numbers. I've seen Andrew from Tightlines cast those things a mile behind his shop, and I've been played with them on the Atlantis. They seem fine, but maybe a little on the light side, which is not surprising since I'm a beginner with two hands and beginners tend to want to feel more weight. I've got a RIO Outbound on the way to me, a 12 weight whose head is in the high 500 range, almost 600 I believe. I'm looking forward to trying it out to see how much the extra weight changes the sensation of the cast. That grainage may be a little much for you, Juro, because you're so accustomed to these rods, but it might be just the ticket for those of us who are transitioning to two hands for the first time. In general, I notice that sometimes better casters need less weight, although I do know some great casters who go up line sizes on conventional lines. Anyway, it sure is nice to have some options.
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Old 05-19-2005, 02:26 PM
omykiss omykiss is offline
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Thanks for all the input, suggestions, help.
The info is really helpful and can't wait to try a few things and.....practice, practice, practice.
Marvin
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Old 05-19-2005, 09:34 PM
omykiss omykiss is offline
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Juro,
Any chance we can get a video of you overhead casting an Atlantis.
Marvin
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  #12  
Old 05-20-2005, 07:44 AM
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Sure, I would be glad to do it.

I have a pretty nice consumer video camera and can make super-slow motion mpegs for web. I'll try to get Sean, Andrew from tightlines, striperstripper and a few other good Atlantis casters on the video for variety too.

Logically speaking, what you want to do for best results IMHO is make the line straight and tight as you begin to accelerate it. This does not mean slamming it with a push/pull into submission, it does not mean making the rod scribe a circlular path over the top like the hand on a clock face, it means using the rod as a device to pull all of the line into a horizontal line and make what would otherwise be a pile of spaghetti into a momentarily rigid object using end-to-end tension.

Then you will only need to do a couple more things: steer it straight, then flick it off the rod tip close to the path it's moving. Even at the slowest speeds it will completely turn over if it was truly tight and straight before the stop.

To illustrate, lay the line down in front of you on the grass or water. With the rod tip as far in front of you as possible and down at the water at the near end of the line, pull the line smoothly backward into the air in as straight a line as possible; use very little power but just make sure to speed up so that the line forms a straight, tight shape without sagging or shock. Then when the rod is back almost as far as you can reach flick the tip to make the loop and the line will fly past the rod tip because it can't just stop once it's been made straight and tight. Let it drop to the ground / water, waiting for it to completely unravel. If there is no turbulence in the line, and top and bottom stays level and parrallel the whole way you've got it right. If not, try again, don't worry about the forward cast until you get it. This shows just how little power you need if you can make the line tight from end to end and also how your tightrope needs to be steered.

Now instead of letting the line fall, slowly tighten it thru the same horizontal line coming forward. more later
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  #13  
Old 05-20-2005, 11:06 PM
omykiss omykiss is offline
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Juro,
Thanks, I will incorporate your pointers in my next practice session.
Marvin
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