Well Duh.... Study results on sea lice from fish farms on native salmonids... - Page 2 - Fly Fishing Forum
Our Environment We are stewards of wild places

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  #16  
Old 04-03-2005, 12:42 AM
Brian Simonseth's Avatar
Brian Simonseth Brian Simonseth is offline
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Feiger

Nice post!
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Brian

THE NEWER CHIEF of E.P.

Real Steelhead Don't Eat Pellets!!
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  #17  
Old 04-03-2005, 01:19 AM
DEERHAAWK DEERHAAWK is offline
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You Know.....

Every time there is a thread like this, fish farm problems, pollution + fish, dams + fish, irrigation rites + fish, etc, etc. I am reminded of the old Native American tale, repeated for those who have not heard it before;
After the Great Spirit created Man, He gathered all the other Animals he had created together and said, "Look at this which I have created!" Then He turned to all the Animals and said, "Who among you will help sustain that which I have created"?... And the first one to step forward..... was Slamon!
Its time to return the favor!
And thats what It's all about.... for me and many many other like minded individuals here on the Forum, we are returning the favor, taking care of the resource that we have been entrusted with, so that generations in the future, when they look fondly at pictures of us in our "Haydays" as Anglers, they can visit the same Streams and Rivers that we walked, and the water will be clear, and when they pick up a fly rod and make that cast , the Fish will still be there!
Be passionate about your Sport
Take care of the resource
Pass on that passion and knowledge, just like those that bothered to pass it on to us.
SO easy , NOT rocket science
I was studying tonight for another storyline. I came across these stats:
Pre-European runs of Salmon on the Columbia River were on the order of 10-16 million fish, all Wild I might add. Runs in the Pugeot Sound were 4 - 6 times that number! Now barley 2 million fish return to the Columbia, with 70% being Hatchery fish. The Sound has seen a 90% drop in runs. Out of an estimated 500 species that once roamed the waters, 200 are gone, never to return. Many of the rest are in various stages of decline. (from Trout and Salmon of North America by Robert Behnke / Joseph Tomelleri) There are similar storys all around the world.

Anders, I know that you have been following this post. I hope that this gives you a better picture of us as a group, and of us as individuals. I invite you to "Help" the fish!

Pescaphile, EASY on that "Poor Ol' Deerhawk" stuff.....I got $6 bucks 'n change, and I aint that old.....yet!

Feiger, Juro, OC, Pete, Pescaphile, Anders; Thanks, we need more dialog like this

Deerhawk
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  #18  
Old 04-03-2005, 01:26 AM
DEERHAAWK DEERHAAWK is offline
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P.S......

By the way, That's Salmon, not Slamon
Ahh.....Sorry
DH
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  #19  
Old 04-03-2005, 03:16 PM
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pescaphile pescaphile is offline
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Juro,
I guess I misread your question as "who cares the most" rather than "who cares more than C&R anglers." Regardless of which question is asked, the answer isn't one that can be definitivly answered -who's to say what constitutes caring? It certainly manifests itself differently in different people. I think most would agree that eco-terrorists actions are perverted though I don't think one could say they don't care.

In an attempt to anwer you directly, I'd say those that care more about fish are those who do something on the behalf of fish. These folks come from a wide range of groups, eg, tribes, commercial fisherman, conservation groups, scientists, and yes sport anglers too. People can debate what is best or even whether a certain practice is even good at all, but they're all doing something. By your own admission, the fraction of C&R anglers that actually do something is "shamelessly low." Given this, I'd say those that do something for fish care more. But who's to say? What does it mean to care in the first place?

I can show you a couple small tributaries where C&R anglers pursue steelhead in these parts. These are spawning areas and those anglers are pounding these poor fish on the redds. Many of them have guides. I'm sure many have seen the video of the infamous angler with the fly named after him pounding some poor fish with cast after cast until the fish finally is hooked. What a wonderful thing to teach anglers! (sarcasm intended).

Don't misunderstand me. I'm certainly pro C&R and think in balance we ahve a positive influence. My point is only that the vast majority of us don't do anything directly to aid the fish.

Feiger -my post was made with a brush about as broad as the Pacific. And most of it was made in my exasperation with the federal resource managers here who seem hell bent to expand the killing of small runs native steelhead in small streams. One of the leaders of that program here has been arrested twice for poaching and the last time a small stream here was closed to fishing due to a poor return, this steward was out there as soon trying to fill his cooler with sockeye as he got wind of the stream would be closed in two days -I'm definitely not referring to a faceless federal govt here. Of course I realize this individual is the exception. I just wish some people could be fired from the feds -something that seems impossible. As I said its aout power and politics, I don't see any way this particular program could be seen in a pro-fish light.

The driving issue for statehood for Alaska was to get local (state) management of fish and game. I remember my dad talking about how the King Crab in Kachemak Bay were wiped out in three seasons under federal management in the 50s. They still haven't recovered. I don't think we'll be seeing fish traps at the mouths of salmon streams like there used to be then, but the feds are wrestling control from the state through the subsistence issue. I hope for the best and do what I can, but it's discouraging at times.

I have no doubt you're working to do beneficial things as are most. Sorry if you got a little bit of paint from my overly broad brush.

OC - I suspect you may be on to something -certainly in part. Hopefully, someone will take a good objective look at your hypothesis to see for sure.

Deerhaawk - That comment was meant to sympathize with ya for being drug into this whole mess by Anders (where'd he go anyway?) and having me insinuate you're a hypocrite with my devil's advocate questions. Six bucks eh? You're definitely buying should we ever get the chance to meet and talk fish... Just no "hardhat beer" okay?
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  #20  
Old 04-03-2005, 05:33 PM
Anders Anders is offline
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Hello...

Wow! Quite a respons!

I myself is a game angler, and coud not agree more; fish frams is a threat to the environment they are kept in. They`re a plauge.

DH: Animal abuse was probobly a strong word to use, talking about C&R. I just wanted to remind you about the opposition, the radicals. The ones that mean C&R is animal abuse. Because some people think it is. Our opposition is growing. During last winter the government in Norway made a proposal to make c&r in put&take ponds illegal. I myself do not Think of it as animal abuse, but i am avare that many people don`t understand why we catch fish an then releas it, and that i have fun getting trout to take my dry fly, playing it and then releas it. What i am trying to say: I would not like it if somone sat a hook in my mout, played me and then relased me, just to do it al over....

It is sad that money is the only thing that matters. There is a great deal that could bee done to reduce damage done by fish farms, but that cost`s money. We would manage with out fish farms, but there is a great deal of money in it. (Beside oil, export of salmon (from fish farms) is a large income for Norway).
I just wish that someone could sodd the money, and think about the environment for once.


Anders
(Sorry if my english is bad. Crap english is better than norwegian, at least for you guys)

Last edited by Anders; 04-03-2005 at 05:35 PM.
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  #21  
Old 04-03-2005, 07:53 PM
DEERHAAWK DEERHAAWK is offline
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Welcome

Anders, your english is just fine. Glad to have you here on the Forum. Looking forward to your input, and a Norwegian perspective!
Deerhawk
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