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Great Lakes Steelhead & Salmon Amazing "Inland ocean" fisheries

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  #16  
Old 02-22-2005, 12:39 PM
Shaq Shaq is offline
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I agree

I've been meaning to try the sinking leaders. They have a 7 foot 7ips sink rate one that might be perfect for the salmon. I also think I don't need to cut that because I have the WC for tips which for that application it works just fine.

Last edited by Shaq; 02-22-2005 at 12:40 PM.
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  #17  
Old 02-22-2005, 12:48 PM
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BLACK FRANCIS BLACK FRANCIS is offline
Nick Pionessa OOFS
 
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a standard wc with that 7 ft 7 ips leader will work very well on the salmon. with a weighted fly it will reach 6 ft easily. for more depth try a 6 ft hunk of t-14 with a 4 ft fluoro leader and slightly weighted fly. the full wc turns them over well and there is nothing to ice up. the sa short seems like it may load up short a little better but i haven't had enough time to really try it out. a clouser line upped two sizes works very well especialy for around 40 ft. any farther and there is too much stripping.
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  #18  
Old 02-22-2005, 01:15 PM
peter-s-c peter-s-c is offline
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Nick

Have you ever run into the problem of having the WC back taper jam up in an iced over tiptop? A couple of weeks ago, we were out on a cold day just doing some casting and our lines were getting pretty heavily iced up. I put some of my buddy's BMW goop on my lines and guides that didn't prevent icing, but made the ice easy to remove. When retrieving my Delta Long, the backtaper hit the tiptop in a big spray of ice and jammed up pretty good. Thanks to the goop, I was able to pull the backtaper through as it broke off the ice but without the goop and with a fish on, it may not have been fun. All of my rods have caged, ceramic insert tiptops that just makes this problem a whole lot worse.
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  #19  
Old 02-22-2005, 05:57 PM
peter-s-c peter-s-c is offline
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Here's a few pics on the loops I've been doing lately.


Use acetone to remove the coating from the fly line and the ends of a 3" section of running line.

http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/Pc240003.jpg


Tie three nail knots in a row (don't scrimp, two may fail).

http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/Pc240006.jpg


Finish with thread and coat with thinned Aquaseal or similar glue.

http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/Pc240007.jpg
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  #20  
Old 02-22-2005, 06:46 PM
Shaq Shaq is offline
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[Tie three nail knots in a row (don't scrimp, two may fail).

Could you elaborate on the nail knots. Do you use a seperate piece of mono? Or do you use the loop tag ends themselves?

DO you have it on your streamer page?
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  #21  
Old 02-22-2005, 07:27 PM
peter-s-c peter-s-c is offline
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Sorry, forgot to mention that the nail knots are 20lb. Dacron. I overlay the two ends of the running line core with the main fly line core. I tie the first knot not too snuggly then align them, then tighten it. The next two are then added and the tags of the core and knots trimmed.

Last edited by peter-s-c; 02-22-2005 at 07:43 PM.
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  #22  
Old 02-22-2005, 07:35 PM
Shaq Shaq is offline
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Thanks I really like that.
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  #23  
Old 02-22-2005, 11:29 PM
h2o h2o is offline
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Hey Shaq, Glad you had a good time and were able to get out.
Here are some thoughts in regards to loops and tips. Personally I don't like the welded loops, they hang up more in the guides. I prefer mono or kevlar loops and the way they slide through the guides. A simple and secure way to put them on is to nail knot them with 15 # test mono. I ususally do two seperate nail knots. That is all that is needed if attaching to a floating line. If attaching to a thin sinking line, do the same but coat the knots with Loon knot sence.
The RIO sinking leaders are handy but, there is a draw back. Unlike a level sink tip or a dencity comp. tip the sinking leaders will belly and sink butt first. A weighted fly helps. I prefer a factory one pc. decity comp. above all but, for shorter 5' to 10' handy loop on's I prefer to make my own from S.A. Shooting Tapers (RIO, Cortland may have them also ?) I use a level section to prevent bellying and get the fly down quicker. Of course as you & Peter noted for shorter cast's you can just use a well built tapered mono leader and a couple shot and I do also.
Hope to get out soon...............cabin fever Things should break here in the next 2 weeks or so.
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  #24  
Old 02-23-2005, 08:58 AM
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Peter, i haven't had any trouble with ice on the full lines. i am admittadly a bit of a wimp and don't fish in the true cold very much (too many flies to tie and too many warmer days comming). the tip cages must go for winter fishing, though. you have seen the results and the big saltwater tips are much better. one of my winstons has small tip top and never sees a winter day anymore. i found out from a customer that Pam cooking spray works very well to keep of the ice. as far as we know it won't damage a line either (veggie oil). it comes in small cans that will easily fit in a pocket too. the wc line has a little more gradual taper on the back so i haven't seen it jam, but i bet the sa short head would with that steep rear taper. i would like to try the dt and see if i can get used to not stripping. has anyone tried an overlined long belly instead? i have a 10/11 sa long that i will try on the seven wt and see how it works for short, non stripping casting. cant be too much different than a dt and i could mark it for the right casting weight/distance, hhhmmm. btw nice work on the loops and thanks for posting the pics.
h20- try the t-14 for tips i think it will work for you. or take a 12ft 7 ips rio sinking leader and cut three feet of the front to get to the thicker taper, then they get the fly down quick. it does help if you have at least a lightly weighted fly.
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  #25  
Old 02-23-2005, 09:03 AM
peter-s-c peter-s-c is offline
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Just to add about braided loops. The Cortland loops are quite small so they tend to bulk up and are terrible for going through guides. The ones supplied by Airflo, Fenwick, and Rio seem a lot better in this regard. Like you, I also nail knot the braided loops but I've found that the end knot will occasionally catch on the guides. If I'm having that problem, I whip finish the nail knot, a bit of thinned glue to seal it and problem solved.

I agree that Polyleaders work best with weighted flies with one caveat. This past fall, we did a fair bit of fishing at the same spot on the Grand and both of us were using a combination of Polyleaders, braided sinking leaders, or the sinktips provided with the multi-tip lines. I was using unweighted flies most of the time while Dave used mostly weighted flies. While the water temps remained fairly warm, I tended to do better than Dave but as soon as the temps dropped and/or water levels rose and dirtied up, Dave did better than me. My conclusion -- in warmer, clearer waters, the fish will rise and chase my shallower running fly but in higher/dirtier water or when temps are dropping, Dave's flies got down to where the fish were and mine didn't. Most of the time, we were both using T-3s so presumably, our tips were sinking to the same level.

Last edited by peter-s-c; 02-23-2005 at 10:25 AM.
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  #26  
Old 02-23-2005, 09:29 AM
peter-s-c peter-s-c is offline
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About the tip cages and small guides -- they're certainly a curse when things get icy. It's one reason I've ordered a 7/8 Kispiox as that rod comes with large guides and tiptop. It's also a pretty soft rod that won't grossly overpower sluggish winter fish.

If my DT experiments go OK, I'll be buying three or four cheap standard DT-9s in floating, clear, T-3 and T-6 to use on it, mostly for short to medium ranges and no-stripping during the winter. There's a cheap 10/11 cast LA reel on the UK market with cassette spools so that solves the spool cost problem for this solution. This is still just an idea right now and by next winter, I could completely change my mind -- again, but we'll see how it goes. If the weather holds, I'll be fishing a DT floater on the Credit on Saturday in sub-freezing temps -- should be a good first test.

BTW, heard about the PAM trick -- I wonder if SWMBO would have my head if I swiped the kitchen supply . . . .

Last edited by peter-s-c; 02-23-2005 at 10:24 AM.
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  #27  
Old 02-23-2005, 11:44 AM
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voodoofly voodoofly is offline
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Hello Peter

I was casting a DT9F while evaluating a Meiser 6/7. I now have this lined with a Rio MS 6/7. Casting felt about the same in the 50-70' range. Of course the MS is easier to cast. The DT9 might be too light for the 7/8 rod.

I will fish under any condition. When the windchills are below 0 F you need to break ice from the guides. Period. The largest oversized guides help. Your reel spool will freeze to the frame. You need to manually rotate it to free it. Period. Eventually your leader may become encased in ice. Sometimes the fly will. This happens when the line is out of the water too long between drifts/swings or that it's really friggin' cold. Then you need to take a break and let everything thaw out. I really like fishing under those conditions. Every fish is that much more enjoyable.

Gary
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  #28  
Old 02-23-2005, 12:13 PM
peter-s-c peter-s-c is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by voodoofly
I was casting a DT9F while evaluating a Meiser 6/7. I now have this lined with a Rio MS 6/7. Casting felt about the same in the 50-70' range. Of course the MS is easier to cast. The DT9 might be too light for the 7/8 rod.
Gary
Gary, you could be right -- I'll be trying it first with the DT-10-F that I already have. But I suspect the DT-9 will be OK due to the rod's very soft upper section and that supposedly these rods are built to the new spey standards so it's more of a 7 than an 8. That means a DT-9 should be about right. We'll see when I get it.

About the cold, well you're a better man than I, Gunga Din. I get out in minus Celsius but not in minus Farenheit. Fortunately we don't see too many days like that, but even so, most of the fishable water is either iced over or closed for the season. I'm only getting out to the Credit because the recent thaw and rains blew out the ice. We've had a weird winter.
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  #29  
Old 02-23-2005, 06:14 PM
peter-s-c peter-s-c is offline
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Here's a DT grain weight calculator. Just enter the front taper length and it'll calculate the grain weight at various intervals.

http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/DTcalculator.xls

I've verified it against my DT-10-F Ultra Salmon and for this line the chart is within 1%-2% of the measured grain weight at each length.

Last edited by peter-s-c; 02-23-2005 at 06:27 PM.
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  #30  
Old 02-23-2005, 08:16 PM
Shaq Shaq is offline
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maybe a good deal

If anybody wants to get some cheap lines, on COrtland's website, in the clearance items, they have DT F 333's for $18 and the DT spey lines for $35. It's a goiod price to do some experiementing
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