Line Info for Atlantis Surf-tamer: - Fly Fishing Forum
Art of Casting Analysis, refinement of the cast

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  #1  
Old 02-06-2005, 09:22 AM
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Line Info for Atlantis Surf-tamer:

Update: line information to offer for the Surf-tamer (a work in progress):

The shorter the head, the less grains you can use effectively; thus for a 30ft head like the Wulff, under 500 grains loads it fine; for 35ft heads, the Airflo 12wt loads it fine; and for 45ft heads we are putting the 12wt DI7 at over 600 grains without a problem and with the Hardy Mach I 10/11 at 52ft we are easily carrying 648 grains.

We are also reaching casting distances 140ft and beyond with some of the specialized heads.

Lines I have tried and liked include:

Wulff 12wt tarpon taper (full line, 32ft head)
SA 12wt Intermediate (full line, 3* ft taper)
Airflo 12wt clear intermediate (std head config)
*New Airflo 40plus Striper Two-hander lines (avail 2005)
Hardy Mach I 10/11 full salmon line (52ft head)

SA 38ft shooting heads (38ft)
Airflo Clr and DI3-7 Multihead Shooting tapers (35ft)
Airflo DI7 Expert Multihead Shooting tapers (45ft)
Rio Scandinavian (cut to 38ft)

(I don't have the grains handy as I am typing this off the cuff)

I have plans to test additional lines in 2005 as my budget allows.

Optimum head length for my fishing applications is 35-40 ft, because this length can be fished best on the beach while not compromising flight characteristics too badly over 120'+ distances.

Most 11wt lines load the Surf-tamer on the light side, the Hardy Mach I and Spey lines being the exception. We rated the rod 11/12wt because it's more on the 11wt end of things for two-hander and salmon lines while being clearly on the 12wt side for typical single hand lines due to the above mentioned head length / grain ratios whereby longer can carry more grains given the same rod.

Andrew Moy, Tightlines Flyfishing (sponsor) casting in the Danbury Flyshow Parking lot...
http://cndspey.com/video/over_suv2.avi
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  #2  
Old 02-09-2005, 05:38 AM
wrke wrke is offline
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Juro
What size (wt) was the Rio scandinavian line?
Bill
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  #3  
Old 02-12-2005, 07:41 AM
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Bill -

Ooops just spotted this Q...

I have the 9/10 cut back a touch for the Surftamer. I will bring the setup to ACKLINS for you to test cast in person... it's a rocket and might be the ticket for some crazy reef species.
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Old 02-14-2005, 12:08 PM
wrke wrke is offline
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Juro
Cool. I also have the scando 9/10 w/tips (purchased last month for my ARC 1509). I'll give it a try later this week with the Atlantis while casting in the snowstorms for our Finger Lakes salmonids.
Thanks
Bill

Last edited by wrke; 02-14-2005 at 12:09 PM.
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  #5  
Old 03-28-2005, 10:49 AM
Jazzman Jazzman is offline
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Any word on the availability of this line and who is carrying it in the North East? I tried one or two shops, but they didn't know too much about it, but I've also heard that it should be shipping around now.

Thanks.
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  #6  
Old 03-31-2005, 03:03 PM
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Thumbs up It's mine and...

You CAN'T have it!

Senior ScottMeister at the Bear's Den (one of our fine sponsors) was kind enough to send me the new Airflo 40+ Two-Hand Beach Line #11/12 Intermediate Sink...which I shall, hence forth, refer to as my Atlantis Long-Line...
...Thanks Scott!!! I love e-commerce...

The clear intermediate head loaded the rod nicely and the air superiority blue running line was slick and relaxed as it flew through the guides causing the signature tug (I love that little "chirp")...
I give it 1 1/2 thumbs up...my highest rating...

IMHO...Juro and the crew at Airflo hit the nail on the head with this one!
Cost some ca$h but, if you wanna' dance, you gotta' pay the band!

Sort'a like the cherry blossom thing...I've picked tick #3 off Lucy...
...7 more and it will be time for me to stand in some cold water, wave a stick in the air, and wait for the tug on my Long-Line...
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  #7  
Old 03-31-2005, 06:56 PM
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I just got my hands on a 40+ Beach line, a demo lent to me. The line sure loads the Atlantis well, but although it is listed as a 35 foot head, this one taped out at 29' 9". The energy sort of blows right out the end of the line when you put the wood to her, I think it's just too short. Behaves well on shorter casts, but that's not the point, right? The bomber casts end up with the head doing some weird s**t in the air, like it's having violent spasms as it tries to roll out. Did this with 3 of us casting it, so I know it aint just me.

Penguin, did you measure your line?
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Old 03-31-2005, 07:05 PM
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Moose -

I received an earlier prototype with shorter head lengths but the newer prototypes are lengthened to suit the distances acheivable with two-handed rods. It's possible you received a first-round prototype (?)

What did you think of the running line?
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Old 03-31-2005, 09:38 PM
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The tape doesn't lie...

The clear head measures 30' and the running line is 92'...
...despite mild dyslexia, that's 122'...and accounts for the end of cast tug...

The label stated 35' head 530 grains 150 feet total length...
I wonder where the "40+" enters into the equation?!

'Sounds like quality control strikes again...
...and I get to call Airflo customer service in the morning...

Juro...Any suggestions?!
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Old 03-31-2005, 09:43 PM
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Only what I stated earlier.

BTW 122ft + leader to the chirp is one hell of a cast.
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  #11  
Old 04-01-2005, 06:40 AM
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The 40 has to do with years of same old and not head length.....I am currently thinking of joining in with Fred A and marketing some 40+ scotch to go with the line

Below is from from Airflo;

Recent fly rod design and materials have revolutionised fly rod performance and changed the way we cast.

Yet as a line manufacturer, the line rating system that we must adhere to was created over 40 years ago when many people still used rods built from cane or fiberglass.

Airflo realized that to maximize your true potential with modern fly rods, the flyline design had to be radically upgraded - welcome to the new Forty Plus line.

Ask almost any flyfisher what cast they would like help with and they will tell you it is the distance
cast. By taking the advantages of a shooting head and blending them into an advanced weight forward design, we have created a distance casting flyline for everyone.
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Old 04-01-2005, 07:01 AM
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The demo line I have came via Red Shed, and Mike had called Rajeff's the day I asked him about the line (a week ago) and they sent it to him, brand new, clearly never used before I got it. Clear intermediate head, 29' 6" 552 grains. The construction and materials are top notch and yes, I love the running line, but the head length issue needs to be resolved. I think 35' would be a minimum, and if they wanted to style it specifically for the Atlantis like they advertise, it should be a 40 foot head to allow for the extreme distances the rod is designed for. Airflo lines are my absolute favorite for both single and double handed rods because of the tapers and slick line construction, but they have really had some issues recently with quality control over things like head lengths not meeting advertised specs and loop to loop connections that hinder a smooth energy transfer.

So close, yet so far!!

I hope they can resolve this, because they are closer than any other line manufacturer to having the ultimate off the shelf fly lines, IMHO.
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  #13  
Old 04-01-2005, 07:46 AM
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Moose -

Well said. If you haven't already, you should forward your comments to Airflo.

A little background:

After trying the shorter head prototype, I found that putting a large (e.g. very large) wind-resistant fly on the line and relaxing the stroke threw the line very well and for a long way without running out of runway, but not all situations call for that approach.

(This makes me wonder if tying a l-o-n-g leader of very stout butt down to 20# tippet (commonly used on the beach) would tame the turnover and create the opportunity for more integration of monofilament into the line loop.)

Anyway when I put a more commonly used 6" saltwater fly and gave it any kind of stroke acceleration to overcome wind (a constant on the beach) the short head ran out of room per recent discussion. I provided feedback consistent with your findings to Airflo.

Airflo quickly responded with the longer head length per the description we see in their catalogs. I have not received my longer head samples yet either but having a lot of experience with Airflo multihead 35ft and 45ft heads I am completely confident that they will totally rock when such a head with the right grain load is fused with that killer running line. I heard they are supposed to be available in April; I'll check with Tim. This is good timing as the striper fishing on the atlantic gets really cooking in mid-May.

BTW - Tim also commented that they are coming out with a thinner version of that running line which I would really like to try. The one on the "beach line" sits in the stripping basket like a faithful bird dog but I am always looking for a shooting line edge, if the thinner one also lays well in the basket then it's the best of both worlds. And talk about low stretch!

So in summary my feedback was consistent with yours. A longer head length was the eventual design decision from Airflo (per the catalog).

Side note: I believe the holy grail would be a short head that does not run out of runway over 120+ft of distance because:

- it strips closer to the beach
- rolls out easier
- less susceptible to high dunes and beach grass (obstructions)
- supports sight fishing better
- defeats wind easier

I wish science would prove that it's possible to design a short head that could hold a loop for 100, 120 even approaching 150ft casts. However I think the laws of physics are the limiting factor not taper design.

I will post here as soon as I can get samples of the longer head lines.
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  #14  
Old 04-01-2005, 02:39 PM
Speybro Speybro is offline
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Just thought you fellas would like to know that Rio has its own integrated shooting head that is being field tested now. There are a couple on the way to Juro to play with. No doubt he will give the board some honest feedback about it.

It's going to be available in early summer and is called the "Outbound". You'll see a series of ads for it soon enough! The #12 should be ideal on the Atlantis. It has a 37.5 ft long head, weighing around 550 grains and a total length of 120 ft. The taper gives it a very smooth casting loop, yet easily carries the biggest striper flies. Funnily enough Jim and I were casting it this morning and had on one of those very large Striper Dragon's flies on. Extreme distance was easy.....

Enjoy it Juro........
Simon
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  #15  
Old 04-01-2005, 02:50 PM
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LIFE IS GOOD!

thanks Simon!
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