Approaches - Page 2 - Fly Fishing Forum
Great Lakes Steelhead & Salmon Amazing "Inland ocean" fisheries

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
  #16  
Old 12-29-2004, 09:49 AM
Jamey McLeod Jamey McLeod is offline
Thumper of Drum.
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: West MI
Posts: 222
Send a message via AIM to Jamey McLeod Send a message via MSN to Jamey McLeod Send a message via Yahoo to Jamey McLeod
Very good idea Gillie. Not to detract from Peters plans, but that would be another great option.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #17  
Old 12-29-2004, 09:59 AM
peter-s-c peter-s-c is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Grand River, Ontario
Posts: 2,084
Gillie

It's not a bad idea, however, I wouldn't want to compete with this forum. While this one isn't dedicated solely to the long rod, I don't see that as a bad thing as we benefit from all experiences, plus there are plenty of guys in the GL basin who fish with both rod types.

As an example of what I would like to put on my site was our experiences yesterday in -4C weather with low, clear water conditions after a relatively long cold spell that would've reduced water temps to the lowest.

I was using chartreuse flies while Dave stuck with drab brown with red and he hooked up two while I ended up with a zero. I've often thought that yellow or charteuse should work in these sorts of conditions (it has in the past), but that drab and a splash of colour might go well too. Can't say from one outing that drab is the in thing, but it's enough to make me consider tying up a bunch.

As far as rods and lines goes, I was using a Delta Long on my 10 wt. Daiwa to avoid stripping and guide icing while Dave was using a shooting head with a braided running line. That running line soaked up water and iced his guides up pretty good -- so bad that on one fish, I had to gently remove ice from his tiptop and tip snakes so that he could retrieve the head/running line joint through the guides.

This made me think of a few things. Both of us were using rods with ceramic insert, cage type tiptops and they iced up bad. Titanium coated Hayforks would be much better and I'm thinking about converting at least one rod. Shooting heads in sub-freezing, especially with braided running line looks like a non-starter. The long 14'6" 10 wt. enabled long line pickup that permitted 70' to 75' casts without shooting and avoided excessive icing. This is the one scenario where I see an advantage for a 15 footer with a long bellied line. One big problem though with typical long-belly tapers -- if you're not casting the fat belly section beyond the tiptop, you could get icing on the tiptop with a hole that is smaller than the fat belly. If a fish runs, as that fat belly hits the skinny iced over hole, you either break off the fish or your rod tip. This is one place where a DT line seems perfect as the constant diameter of the DT ensures that the hole in the iced over tiptop is never too small to pass the entire line. I have a new DT-10-F Spey Ultra 4 that I haven't used yet -- should try it with Polyleaders just to see how well it works.

This icing problem also discourages the use of Rio WC and MS multi-tips as the tip 2/belly joint could easily refuse to pass through the iced over tiptop & guides, leaving you with a fish on and nowhere to go.

The other aspect that had me thinking was tips vs mono and weighted flies. The flow rates were at summertime lows so even an intermediate 15' tip + a fly tied on a heavy salmon iron was ticking bottom way too much -- even in 3' to 4' depths. I probably would've been better off with a 15' FC leader and that fly. The conditions approached what little I've seen in video and pictures of slow Atlantic salmon pools where heavy iron and mono leaders get down quite a bit.

Last edited by peter-s-c; 12-29-2004 at 10:03 AM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #18  
Old 12-29-2004, 10:54 AM
Gillie Gillie is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Great lakes and West Coast Steelhead
Posts: 165
Peter,
I guess I'm a little confused how doing it on the speyclave would compete with this forum any more than doing it on a seperate web site all together. In fact, with the Fly Fishing Forum and the Spey Clave linked it should only bring in more people to both of them.

I just like one stop shopping, and would like to see the Spey Clave continue to grow and become more involved with the GL>

Good luck with it either way.

Gillie
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #19  
Old 12-29-2004, 11:54 AM
peter-s-c peter-s-c is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Grand River, Ontario
Posts: 2,084
I wasn't planning on hosting a forum on the site, rather it would be something similar to my existing site so, in that sense, it isn't competition. Any contributions by other anglers would be be converted to HTML and mounted by me. So the site would be a collection of GL fishing experiences, flies, tackle, etc. rather than a live forum.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #20  
Old 12-29-2004, 01:07 PM
sva01 sva01 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: west michigan rivers
Posts: 64
down & dirty

Quote:
Originally Posted by peter-s-c
This icing problem also discourages the use of Rio WC and MS multi-tips as the tip 2/belly joint could easily refuse to pass through the iced over tiptop & guides, leaving you with a fish on and nowhere to go.
Peter-
This isn't a permanent solution by any means but dropping your rod tip into the water and keeping it there while fighting the fish will melt the ice for you. Obviously after the fish is landed you're back to square one, but it will get you out of the situation you refer to above.
Here in Michigan and particularly on the Muskegon the winter steelhead tend to roll after they've been hooked. The best way to counter this move is to lower the rod parallel to the water and even put the tip into the water. It seems that by lowering the angle of pressure and keeping the fishes head parallel with the current, the fish will stop rolling as violently and therefore gives us a better chance of landing it.
Another thing that I make sure to do is apply Loon's Ice off Paste to my guides before I fish and while the rod is DRY. I find that the Mucilin silicone line dressing also works well. As I said, do it while the rod is dry for the best results!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #21  
Old 12-29-2004, 01:22 PM
peter-s-c peter-s-c is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Grand River, Ontario
Posts: 2,084
Does your rod have a Hayfork tip or a cage type? Dave tried dunking the rod tip but the hunk of ice was too big as the cage type tiptop really gives ice plenty of purchase. I didn't have any icing at all until I made the mistake of accidentally sticking the tip in the water -- it was iced up from that point on. Cage type tiptops really suck in sub-freezing conditions.

We had some silicone goop that worked to keep the guides clear for a while, but eventually it all iced up.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #22  
Old 12-29-2004, 01:54 PM
sva01 sva01 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: west michigan rivers
Posts: 64
Ummmmm....

I've never really paid much attention to component descriptions because I've never even considered building my own rod. With that being said, I'd have to guess that it's a cage type. It's a factory Sage 9141 so maybe that will tell you. If you'd reply with the differences between the two I'd love to hear it.
The icing you experienced typically happens at some point throughout the day for me as well. The most beneficial step is the silicone paste before the guides get wet. That will considerably delay the onset of ice but it will probably happen regardless. We fished two weeks ago on a day that the high was 14 degrees farenheit. It was tough all day but we managed, and had to resort to dunking the rod a few times while fighting fish. I guess I'd rather have to dunk it and deal with it from then on than not have a reason to dunk it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #23  
Old 12-29-2004, 02:01 PM
peter-s-c peter-s-c is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Grand River, Ontario
Posts: 2,084
Don't own a Sage two-hander so I couldn't say what they put on them, however, the ceraminc insert, cage type resembles the tiptops found on spinning rods while the Hayfork is the simple wire loop tiptop found on most single handed fly rods.

--------------------

Just checked the Sage website and they all look like Hayfork wire tiptops. They'd be a lot easier to clear by dunking.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #24  
Old 12-29-2004, 02:16 PM
Charlie's Avatar
Charlie Charlie is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Eastern Great Lakes & Gaspe
Posts: 1,003
Peter,

I like your idea and think I have a good idea of what you are trying to achieve. I have visited your streamer page before and you have some good ideas out there. If I can help with the new one in any way let me know. Perhaps an essay or 2 on fishing some of the local streams and rivers in WNY along with some fly patterns? I will also have a talk with Nick (Black Francis) and explain your concept to him. He is a fantastic resource for spey fishing the area.

Charlie
__________________
Release-em-Alive!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #25  
Old 12-29-2004, 02:17 PM
sva01 sva01 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: west michigan rivers
Posts: 64
It's a cage

It is in fact a ceramic tip top. I like the hayfork type much better as the tip guide and have never figured out why Sage uses the ceramic insert. It's the only guide (besides the stripper) on the rod that contains ceramic and as you said it builds ice faster than the other. I'm able to get the ice off while fighting fish but you have to leave it submerged for at least 30 seconds and sometimes longer.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #26  
Old 12-29-2004, 04:53 PM
peter-s-c peter-s-c is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Grand River, Ontario
Posts: 2,084
Thanks Charlie.

I'll be putting up the bare bones site in a month or so and we can start from there. I'll be pleased to put up your contributions.


sva01

Must be an earlier model as all of the current ones on the Sage site have Hayforks. We tried dunking but the tip was totally clogged -- next time, Hayforks.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #27  
Old 12-29-2004, 05:16 PM
sva01 sva01 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: west michigan rivers
Posts: 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by peter-s-c
sva01
Must be an earlier model as all of the current ones on the Sage site have Hayforks. We tried dunking but the tip was totally clogged -- next time, Hayforks.
Peter-
I bought it this past April. Here is what it looks like.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	tip top.JPG
Views:	85
Size:	29.2 KB
ID:	4202  
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #28  
Old 12-29-2004, 05:35 PM
peter-s-c peter-s-c is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Grand River, Ontario
Posts: 2,084
Interesting as all of the pictures that I saw on the Sage website, showed Hayforks. must be the "tip-of-the-week" at the Sage factory.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #29  
Old 12-29-2004, 06:26 PM
removed_by_request
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by peter-s-c
"tip-of-the-week"

a tip of the week section may be a good idea for the new site.


sure could generate conversation as the seasons roll on, could range from fly tying to line building , to casts/anchor placement. or the now infamous guide de-icing...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #30  
Old 12-29-2004, 06:31 PM
peter-s-c peter-s-c is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Grand River, Ontario
Posts: 2,084
Now that's an idea -- to dunk or not to dunk -- that is the question!

But when I run out of tips, I'll be bugging youse guys . . . .
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Fly Fishing Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The time approaches... pescaphile Pacific Northwest Sea Run Forum 1 08-26-2003 10:01 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:19 PM.



Copyright Flyfishingforum.com (All Rights Reserved)