Niagara River, Skagit, and two-handers - Page 2 - Fly Fishing Forum
Great Lakes Steelhead & Salmon Amazing "Inland ocean" fisheries

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  #16  
Old 12-06-2004, 11:00 AM
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Get an s1/s2 guideline head with a few feet of t-14. Have not seen a current it can't tame.

Set your cast up by dumping it all at your feet and let rip.It ain't pretty but does the job. For grins tie on a big copper tube, you should be ticking the bottom or near abouts.

Sounds like you need some serious grainage to get the job done without it all blowing downstream.

Bad thing about the above set up, you need to be part gorilla to do any type of mend.
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  #17  
Old 12-06-2004, 06:42 PM
peter-s-c peter-s-c is offline
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What's the Guideline heads like? I have 45' of Airflo T-7 -- imagine some T-14 on the end of that would be interesting.
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  #18  
Old 12-06-2004, 08:29 PM
t_richerzhagen t_richerzhagen is offline
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Try one of Leland's Beach Poppers

The pattern is in the Archive of Ocean Salmon flies.
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  #19  
Old 12-06-2004, 08:43 PM
peter-s-c peter-s-c is offline
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Thanks, found it -- interesting looking pattern -- and that stinger hook may prove to be a necessity.
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  #20  
Old 12-07-2004, 02:51 PM
grouseman grouseman is offline
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Enjoying the thread. I just bought my first 2-handed rod and haven't cast it yet so am trying to soak up everything I can. What is the difference in your mind between swinging water and bottom bouncing water and indicator water?
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  #21  
Old 12-07-2004, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peter-s-c
What's the Guideline heads like? I have 45' of Airflo T-7 -- imagine some T-14 on the end of that would be interesting.
You can dump these babies at your feet pick em up and shoot the heck out of them, you can also underhand them. I been doing the skagit dump or the good old double spey with them, nice thing about using the traditional casts is that the D loop is smaller due to head size.

The skagit casts are really slick with this stuff, they don't seem to stick to the water like other lines do.
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  #22  
Old 12-07-2004, 06:08 PM
peter-s-c peter-s-c is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grouseman
Enjoying the thread. I just bought my first 2-handed rod and haven't cast it yet so am trying to soak up everything I can. What is the difference in your mind between swinging water and bottom bouncing water and indicator water?
Bottom bouncing water tends to be deep slots with heavy current where the typical fly rig simply can't get down. Indicator water is basically the same sorts of slots only shallower plus seams, current breaks, or any other defining feature that lets you run a fly and bobber down a clearly defined run that will tend to group fish. Depth is the primary difference between the two.

Good swing water tends to be flatter water where the depth is more or less constant over a wider stretch of river. It can include faster water but the depth should be more or less constant. Swinging flies is difficult over an undulating or slotted bottom unless you adapt your rig to allow you to "steer" your fly through these stretches.
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  #23  
Old 12-07-2004, 06:08 PM
peter-s-c peter-s-c is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjyp
You can dump these babies at your feet pick em up and shoot the heck out of them, you can also underhand them. I been doing the skagit dump or the good old double spey with them, nice thing about using the traditional casts is that the D loop is smaller due to head size.

The skagit casts are really slick with this stuff, they don't seem to stick to the water like other lines do.

I'll have to talk to Neil about these. . . .

thanks
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  #24  
Old 12-07-2004, 06:25 PM
grouseman grouseman is offline
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With winter fast approaching, I wonder if these "swinging" waters are where to find steelhead. I can see fish in the tailouts but have trouble getting a slow enough presentation to interest the fish. The broad, long pools/holes on the Muskegon seem perfectly suited to swinging flies/streamers. This is where I'm imagining the spey will shine, if I can get enough control on the speed of the swing.
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  #25  
Old 12-07-2004, 06:35 PM
peter-s-c peter-s-c is offline
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Or your presentation isn't fast enough to interest the fish.

Try presenting your fly one of two ways, run the fly broadside and fast, like a fleeing minnow by allowing a downstream belly to pull the fly across current. Alternately, make an upstream stack mend then hold the rod tip high and back, lowering it forward as the fly swings -- in effect "dropping" it toward the fish, creating a very slow swing. It is a fallacy to believe that steelhead won't chase fast flies in winter, but they need a few days of more or less constant temps for their metabolism to settle in. It's tough to get fish to chase flies in dropping water temps.

Change up your patterns to match water clarity. I've never been a big fan of big and bright in clear conditions. Go small and somewhat bright (yellow has worked for me) or go natural with good slow water, minnow patterns. Alternately, look at using some of the natural coloured spey flies. I think of big and bright or big and dark as stained or dirty water flies.

Last edited by peter-s-c; 12-07-2004 at 06:37 PM.
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  #26  
Old 12-07-2004, 06:42 PM
grouseman grouseman is offline
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Have you used a riffle hitch?
I've been successful dreaddrifting woolly buggers down slots with the high stick method you mention. I've used the slap the water fast strip flee minnow tactic through the summer, especially in brown trout waters.. but hadn't thought it would work with steelhead.
It seems all the advice in these waters is to go deep and slow with bouncing or bobber methods from here on until things warm in the spring. That's what I've always done, but am tired of monofilament. Also, bobber fishing, while productive, seems aesthetically displeasing.
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  #27  
Old 12-07-2004, 07:07 PM
peter-s-c peter-s-c is offline
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Nope, just a big fat, downstream belly and even some stripping at times to speed it up.

I've heard all that go slow advice too but I was fortunate to start fishing for winter steelhead with a two-hander before I had the benefit of learning that what I was doing was "wrong". It's an outgrowth of the C&D mentality that requires you to bounce a glo bug off the fish's nose.

My son had an interesting time one day, fishing a little trib east of Toronto in early spring when things were still cold. Some float rodders had been drifting roe to a pod of fish and hadn't hit one. My son, who like me knew nothing about the "right way", just treated these fish like smallies and began stripping olive buggers past them at a high rate of knots. Withing an hour or so, he and his friend had exhausted his bugger supply as these fish nailed them constantly. The float rodders apparently looked on in disgust at their constantly bent rods.
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  #28  
Old 12-07-2004, 07:20 PM
grouseman grouseman is offline
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Small and bright with yellow: ?buggers, bunny speys, marabou speys?
Natural slow water minnow patterns?
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  #29  
Old 12-07-2004, 07:35 PM
peter-s-c peter-s-c is offline
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http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/dirty-harry.jpg

a big, honkin' 4" fly on a 2/0 salmon hook for really dirty water


http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharl...wingspey-1.jpg

a slow water natural colour spey for clear conditions -- tied on a #5 Daiichi


http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/steelheadwet.jpg

Small #10 or #12 fly best tied with yellow floss and yellow dyed grizzley chickaboo collar


http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/fiveoaks.jpg

small medium current, stained water fly, also on a #5 Daiichi

and the best one

http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharl...er/weamer.html

Last edited by peter-s-c; 12-07-2004 at 07:38 PM.
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  #30  
Old 12-07-2004, 07:44 PM
grouseman grouseman is offline
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Thanks for your time and interest. I've got materials to tie those. I'll be on the water the next 3 days and give them a try.
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