Taking a chance asking this but.... - Fly Fishing Forum
Bluewater Extreme Test the limits of the fly fishing domain

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-03-2004, 08:53 AM
JusBones's Avatar
JusBones JusBones is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Stuck in OHIO
Posts: 116
Taking a chance asking this but....

Man, I got slammed elsewhere discussing 12wt sail fishing. And the commmnets were cool....obviously a 350 Blue is out of the question.....I will be in Abaco and looking to fish dolphin and with some luck a WHITE.....in the 100-150# range...anywho, a guy with a lot of experience mentioned using straight 80-100# leader (avoing complex knots that I will probably screwup)......my question is how leader shy, if at all are dolphin ? (Mahi-Mahi). If they are cooperative i might be able to use just one rig for both ? Good idea ? Crazy ? Thanks
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old 12-03-2004, 12:09 PM
ladyflyfsh ladyflyfsh is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: southwest Montana
Posts: 14
JusBones, you should be just fine using that rig for dorado. My experience with dorado is they are not leader shy in the least. Especially when others are in competition for the bait and they see an opportunity arise (your fly) and they are very agressive. Also, it is frequent you will have several dorado competing for your fly at the same time. I often will use just a heavy leader straight with no taper and have had great success with that. I've also done the shock tippet with bimini etc. and don't think with dorado there is any sense in fancy expensive leaders.

I've fished for dorado lots in Baja and caught them on flies up to 50 pounds. You should join our group going down this next July from the 14-21st. Contact me directly if interested in info. We need at least one more to round out the group.

Good luck!

Mary
P.S. you can refer to my sailfish article entitled Loreto-Baja sailfish on the fly.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3  
Old 12-04-2004, 07:09 AM
JR SPEY JR SPEY is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Just about anywhere
Posts: 624
The biggest argument against a one-piece 80lb leader is safety. You absolutely do NOT want to have a loop of line around your leg, arm, wrist, etc. when you hook a fish or you will be leaving the boat. I feel this is particularly likely on pangas and super pangas because of their instability compared to larger vessels. The reason that class tippets were developed had at least as much to do with safety as it did in giving a fish a "sporting" chance. If you don't trust your knots, why not buy a high quality big-game leader made by companies like Rio? By the way, where can you find 150lb White Marlin in that area? I may be wrong and would love to be corrected on this, but my understanding is that most of the whites in that area are well under 100lb. That would mean a 12 weight and a standard tarpon leader should work just fine.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4  
Old 12-06-2004, 04:56 PM
boogie boogie is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Vancouver Wa.
Posts: 25
you are talking about 80 lb leader adn then some class tippet, right?
__________________
Jay Bug Beard The Terrible. local sw. washington river pirate
strong enough for a man but made for a woman
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5  
Old 12-07-2004, 07:21 AM
JR SPEY JR SPEY is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Just about anywhere
Posts: 624
The ones I tie are usually about 7' of 50lb medium hard material (Ande's or Berkley Big Game) followed by 8kg or 10kg Mason or Rio Hard IGFA for the class tippet and then a 60lb or 80lb shock of Ande's, Big Game, or even RioMax. This is a standard tarpon leader that can be lengthened or shortened by how long the butt section is. For dorado and the like you probably don't need the 9+ft this will give you. The only reasonably difficult knot in this leader is the bimini. Learn to tie that and the rest is pretty simple. I usually tie mine to IGFA specs, but having a longer shock tippet isn't "cheating" and will usually allow you to land more fish.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6  
Old 12-08-2004, 09:27 AM
Philster's Avatar
Philster Philster is offline
Mr. Mom
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Snoqualmie, Skykomish
Posts: 473
Hmmm the old argument again about one piece leaders... Straight 80 or 100 has no real advantages and one big disadvantage. your line is more likely to break than your leader if you NEED to break the fish off. Even if you use a weak knot like a Homer Rhode loop... Remember it's about abrasion resistance, not tippet strength.

Learn to tie good saltwater leaders, then go 27# to 35# for the class tippet, and use 100# or 125# fluorocarbon for the bite. And go long. 4 to 6 feet of bite. You aren't going to set a world record, and it's about abrasion resistance, remember that! Don't worry about leader shyness or anything.
__________________
"I'm not fat, I just have a sweet hockey body!" Eric Cartman
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7  
Old 12-09-2004, 05:38 AM
JR SPEY JR SPEY is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Just about anywhere
Posts: 624
Any class tippet over 22lb (10kg) increases the safety risk significantly. One of the reasons the IGFA didn't approve the Big Game Class a couple of years ago (which would have allowed 30lb class tippets) was the safety issue and the possibility of legal liability on their part. Line that comes flying up off the deck when a fish first starts to run can get caught on a lot of things. If it's your leg or arm you are in serious trouble.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8  
Old 12-09-2004, 08:45 PM
Philster's Avatar
Philster Philster is offline
Mr. Mom
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Snoqualmie, Skykomish
Posts: 473
Quote:
Originally Posted by JR SPEY
Any class tippet over 22lb (10kg) increases the safety risk significantly. One of the reasons the IGFA didn't approve the Big Game Class a couple of years ago (which would have allowed 30lb class tippets) was the safety issue and the possibility of legal liability on their part. Line that comes flying up off the deck when a fish first starts to run can get caught on a lot of things. If it's your leg or arm you are in serious trouble.

I agree, but most people tie such bad knots...
__________________
"I'm not fat, I just have a sweet hockey body!" Eric Cartman
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9  
Old 12-25-2004, 09:24 AM
Eddie Eddie is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Portland, ME.
Posts: 1,586
i see no reason to have a tippet stronger than 20#. anything heavier and you may as well be fishing with a conventional rig. a longer shock is a good call.
__________________
One cast can change your day...maybe your life.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10  
Old 01-14-2005, 12:31 PM
teflon_jones's Avatar
teflon_jones teflon_jones is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Colorado Front Range
Posts: 1,310
Send a message via AIM to teflon_jones Send a message via Yahoo to teflon_jones
I was just watching a fishing show a couple of days ago where a guy landed a 250+ lb sailfish on a 12 lb tippet. Maybe it was "Walker's Cay Chronicles"? The host wasn't the one who did it, it was the guide/captain. I couldn't freakin believe it. 12 lb tippet for THAT?!?!??!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11  
Old 01-15-2005, 08:56 AM
JR SPEY JR SPEY is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Just about anywhere
Posts: 624
There is something not correct in your information. The IGFA record for Pacific sailfish on a fly is only 136 pounds. Even the all time all tackle record sail is only 221 pounds. Therefore, either your weight or your species is incorrect. With care it is quite possible to catch large fish on relatively light tippets. Doing so is somewhat controversial because it either requires having the fish on for a very long time which increases the chance that you will kill it, or it requires the captain to back down on the fish very quickly, for the leader butt to touch the rodtip (therefore supposedly making it an official catch) and then either trying to get the fish to throw the hook or breaking it off. Since I don't have cable I wasn't able to see the program you're referring to so I don't know which way they went with this fish. By the way, twelve pound really isn't too bad. A good fisherman can land a sailfish of normal size in a reasonable time with high quality twelve pound class tippet material. The real circus is when they start using two, four, and six pound class.

Is it possible the fish they caught was a marlin? A 250 pound striped marlin on twelve pound class is about the same as a 100 pound sail on four or six pound. Marlin are so tough to get on the fly and have so much more endurance than a sailfish, that almost everyone uses at least a twenty pound class when pursuing them. The truth is that some guys say to heck with the IGFA or a possible record and use thirty pound or more. I'd be curious to know if you think you had the weight or the species incorrect.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12  
Old 02-16-2005, 03:49 PM
northforkLI northforkLI is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Eastern LI,NY
Posts: 1
Fish was a marlin - approx. 250 lbs. They were setup for sailfish when they hooked up.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13  
Old 02-27-2005, 06:53 PM
josko josko is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Cape Cod
Posts: 563
Some of these replies leave one wondering just how much offshore fly experience the posters have had. You should be plenty fine with 30# tippet for mahi. You can go up to 50#, but will have a difficult time keeping tight loops with heavier leaders, and it will hurt your distance, If you're not fishing for records, I'd just tie on a stretch of 30# or 40# to your fly line and have at it. If you get a marlin in your spread, try it with 6' of 50#, to keep from abrading on the bill.
If you have a good boat driver, he/she shoiulf be able to get you on top of the fish regardless oif your tackle, and then you have to work a bit. With anything over 100#, a 15 wt is a help but not essent6ial. Just point your rod at the fish and crank the reel. It doesn't feel too elegant, but works well, and the stretch in the fly line will keep you from breaking off. Keep as myuch bend in the rod as you feel is safe, but just keep crankiong the reel.
The most important thing with mahi is to have a variety of flies ready. If they 'catch onto' a particular fly pattern and just follow it to the boat, a drastically different fly will get themn to hit again. I've caught mahi up to 54# on a 10# and haven't felt overmatched. Just jerk on them a bit to get them to go airborne and wear themselves out.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #14  
Old 02-28-2005, 07:52 AM
Eddie Eddie is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Portland, ME.
Posts: 1,586
Josko, for Dorado, why would you need to go over 20#? I have caught them up to 40# with 20# flouro and no shock. I don't remember ever breaking off (well. maybe one or twice to bad knots). Do Mahi Mahi have sharper teeth?
Why would you want a tippet to be stronger than your line or backing?
Why not just have a longer shock for marlin (say 3.5')?
I should add that some people enjoy fishing under IGFA regs (even if they don't want to go for a record). It gives them a bench mark.
__________________
One cast can change your day...maybe your life.

Last edited by Eddie; 02-28-2005 at 08:00 AM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #15  
Old 02-28-2005, 10:42 AM
Roop Roop is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Any
Posts: 1,260
[QUOTE].
If you have a good boat driver, he/she shoiulf be able to get you on top of the fish regardless oif your tackle, and then you have to work a bit. With anything over 100#, a 15 wt is a help but not essent6ial. Just point your rod at the fish and crank the reel. It doesn't feel too elegant, but works well, and the stretch in the fly line will keep you from breaking off. Keep as myuch bend in the rod as you feel is safe, but just keep crankiong the reel.
[QUOTE]

Listen to Josko re: fighting fish.

I read an article on Florida Sportsman, "Take It to the Limit, Shorten battles like a fly tournament champion, By Terry Gibson" Which discusses the system Andy Mills uses to determine the capabilities of his gear.

Regardless of what you think of Andy Mills, the guy C&R BIG fish and this is some good info - at least food for thought.

Personally I'm sick of seeing photos of stressed out exhausted fish from being landed on too light fly gear.

Just my $.02

Roop
__________________
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Fly Fishing Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
9/4 - 9/10, 85% chance . . . Quentin Stripers and Coastal Gamefish 10 09-08-2006 06:57 AM
Taking off for a while Stone Worldwide Flyfishing Discussion 5 08-02-2002 11:34 AM
For The Taking... NrthFrk16 For Sale by Owner 3 02-17-2002 09:32 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:46 PM.



Copyright Flyfishingforum.com (All Rights Reserved)