how many are committed to something besides egg patterns ? - Page 2 - Fly Fishing Forum
Great Lakes Steelhead & Salmon Amazing "Inland ocean" fisheries

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  #16  
Old 11-09-2004, 09:09 PM
h2o h2o is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDJones
I've been wondering about this but been afraid to ask. But most of you on this thread may be OK with this.
But I have to wonder if the situation up here on the Rogue, the indy, two fly, nymph rig, and more importantly, the type of water (slots) these guys prefer to fish, may have evolved from guys that used to fish the same "holes/slots" with drift gear? It seems to me, ('course I'm the new kid on the block up here) that very few employ any kind of a cross river swing. It's all slot fishing.
And no, it doesn't bother me how one chooses to fish. Just that they camp rather than rotate through a run. But if the above is true, then that is maybe not the right water to swing a fly through anyway.
JD, While many float fishing guides became cross dresser's and added fly-float guiding to the "can do" list of services provided, I doubt it "evolved" from float fishers alone. In one form or another it has been around many,many,many years............it just reared its head again. They "prefer" to fish that type water because a) it works and they don't know how to do anything else or b) in frog/swing water they don't know that you can toss a tight looped downstream mend with the flyline, lift the butt & drop the tip of your fly rod, wave the rod tip a little, feed line, .............the loop "sets" after about 20' and then its feed & auto go for a 90' drag free drift. They set with a tug of the line with the float,bobber,indicator way down stream. Thats what you have to look forward to in the prime swing water when the seasoned float & fly number counters move in............sorry. Yea and they do hole sit, because they can keep pounding them on that dead drift just by making small adjustments to fly's, shot, depth, etc. All you can do is hope they get bored fishing that way.
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  #17  
Old 11-09-2004, 11:48 PM
flytyer flytyer is offline
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Peter,

A fellow by the name of Don Kaas of Port Angeles (who may no longer be alive) showed me the same style of wing on spey flies back in 1991. Don used G.P. breast feathers or dyed G.P. saddle feathers doubled and laid flat for the wing. He also usually put 3 or 4 strands of Krystal Flash of the fly body color under the wing and tied the wing very slightly elevated above horizontal while having the wing go slightly beyond the hook point.

I tie and fish three flies winged in this fashion.

Don Kaas's Red Knight [tip: silver oval; tail: hot pink G.P. tippet; tag: florescent flame floss (1/3rd body length); mid- 1/3rd body: florescent flame dubbing; front 1/3rd body: hot pink dubbing; rib: oval silver; hackle: blue eared pheasant or other dark dun spey feather (whiting spey hackle in dark dun is excellent in you don't have blue eard pheasant); under wing: hot pink Krystal Flash (4 strands); face hackle: teal or gadwall; wing: hot pink G.P. saddle under G.P. breast feather tied flat; head: red thread]. This is one of my favorite clear water flies during winter/spring and I fish it exclusively on Alec Jackson Spey Hook #1.5

My own fly that a friend of mine named the Redwing Black Bird [tip: oval silver; body: black dubbing; rib: oval silver; hackle: black spey feather; face hackle: dyed scarlet grey mallard, teal, or gadall flank; wing: two dyed scarlet G.P. saddle feathers tied flat; head: red thread]. I tie and fish this one on Alec Jackson Spey Hooks in #3, #5, and #7. The #3 is used in cold, clear low water in winter, and the smallest is used during the low water of late summer/early fall.

And the third is another of my flies that has no name. It was developed for my friend Bob Arnold's Royal Flash marabou spider and used the same red and blue coloration. [tag: oval gold; body: royal blue dubbing (it is easy to make from royal blue yarn if you can't find any pre-made. I like a product called Lazer Yarn, which I don't know if it is still on the market); rib: oval gold; hackle: red spey feather; underwing: 4 stands red pearlescent Krystal Flashface hackle: royal blue dyed grey mallard, teal, or gadwall (kingfisher blue, torquoise, or S.D. blue works nearly as well); wing: two dyed scarlet G.P. saddle feathers tied flat; head: blue thread.] This is the fly I will tie on first any time you get that low, cold, clear water in winter and I only tie it on #3 and #5 Alec Jackson Spey Hooks. It has worked very well for me in clear winter flows in #5 and is a favorite in glacial rivers that are clearing after having gone out from rain.
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  #18  
Old 11-10-2004, 03:02 PM
Shaq Shaq is offline
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I wish

I wish I was committed to it but it has started to become integrated into my bag of tricks. I guess, because I have to drive 2 1/2 hours to hook a steelhead, I want to hook a steelhead and if that takes a mcfly foam egg to do it, that's what it takes. I usually spend a good amount of time trying popsickles and speys and the like but, since I have been using spey rods for only a year, the confident level isn't too high yet,.

Geoff
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  #19  
Old 11-10-2004, 03:16 PM
peter-s-c peter-s-c is offline
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Flytyer

Sounds like nice flies -- any pictures available for them?
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  #20  
Old 11-10-2004, 04:04 PM
flytyer flytyer is offline
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Peter-

Here is Don Kaas's Red Knight tied without the gadwall face hackle. Unfortunately, my scanner changes the colors of florescent oranges to a sort of pink, which is why the body colors appear to be all a light pink.
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  #21  
Old 11-10-2004, 04:14 PM
peter-s-c peter-s-c is offline
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Very nice -- great looking hackle too.

Makes me think of a subject for another thread; the value of colourful flies, what the oldtimers in Scotland would've called "fancies" and the more drab flies that rely on natural hues. Obviously both work, but how they work will be different.
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  #22  
Old 11-10-2004, 04:16 PM
Shaq Shaq is offline
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speaking of Fancies

Have any of you read Bob VerVerka's Book on Spey Flies and how to tie them? Really good sections on the conversion from Atlantic Salmon to Steelhead.
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  #23  
Old 11-10-2004, 04:26 PM
peter-s-c peter-s-c is offline
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Haven't so far -- I'll have to look it up.
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  #24  
Old 11-10-2004, 04:27 PM
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Ververka's book

Hell, now I'll have to buy another one.
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  #25  
Old 11-10-2004, 04:28 PM
Shaq Shaq is offline
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Spey Flies

Also worth the price just for the color slides
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  #26  
Old 11-10-2004, 04:35 PM
flytyer flytyer is offline
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Peter-

Here is a scan of the Redwing Black Bird Spey.
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  #27  
Old 11-10-2004, 04:38 PM
flytyer flytyer is offline
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Shaq,

I have listed Veverka's and Shewey's books in my thread on salmon/steelhead fly tying books because I consider both of them to be excellent resources and essential books for those interested in salmon/steelhead flies. I have a preference for Veverka's book though because of his inclusion of a section on materials and material selection in the front of the book.
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  #28  
Old 11-10-2004, 04:43 PM
peter-s-c peter-s-c is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flytyer
Peter-

Here is a scan of the Redwing Black Bird Spey.
Now that one would make a great Grand River fly, they're suckers for red and black or purple and black.

Where do you guys get such great hackle?
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  #29  
Old 11-10-2004, 04:50 PM
Shaq Shaq is offline
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I Haven't read Shewey and some thoughts-

I haven't read Shewey's book, what is the title so I can go out and get it. Until I read Ververka's book, I was just hacking through some of the flies. I never knew how big the spey flies should be.

I have some some thoughts on the Great Lakes Tribs, especially in my area.

The make-up of our river bottoms are a mostly shale which creates hard ledges and areas which are hard to swing flies to because the heads of the pools may be 3 feet but two feet downstream may drop to 7 or 8. Holding water sometimes consists of funky little current breaks created by sharp pieces sticking up. It's not a very nice environ to swing speys. When I get to the pools, swinging flies seems to work as well as any other technique. One of the best ways to fish the shale is to nymph it. It doesn't seem like cheating to me, I spend alot of time fishing for trout this way with my four weight. Does it make me a bad guy?

Any thoughts?
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  #30  
Old 11-10-2004, 04:54 PM
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Charlie Charlie is offline
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Very interesting thread. I myself do not like to dead drift, with or without a bobber (aka strike indicator). It just bores the hell out of me and I think it looks silly when you do it with a spey rod. Some will say that dead drifting is more affective than swinging flies and in a number of cases they are correct. However, I have caught my share of Steelhead and it is no longer a numbers game for me. If I sound arrogant that is not my intention. I donít have a problem with anyone fishing the way they want as long as they are not rude about it.

As for the flies Peter and Flytyer put up, very interesting. And some nice ties. Did you ever think about standing the wing up at a slight angle to get it to plain down? Perhaps if you stacked a small amount of deer hair under the wing and trimmed the butts very close to the hook shank with the tips pointing back you might get the desired results. It would take only a very small amount of hair and would not ad to much buoyancy to the fly.

Charlie.
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