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  #16  
Old 07-29-2004, 09:59 AM
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Dble Haul Dble Haul is offline
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Chare, with all due respect your arguements might have more merit if you took a second to put down your brush and stopped painting everyone with sweeping generalizations.
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  #17  
Old 07-29-2004, 10:15 AM
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sean sean is offline
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There are too many fisherman on my local waters gettting there before me and catching all the fish. I propose we just start shooting them...for the environment's sake

-sean
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  #18  
Old 07-29-2004, 10:35 AM
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Feiger Feiger is offline
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Thumbs up Juro -

Thanks for a much more eloquent reply... Right on the money - the difference in solutions is the cost of a case of rifle/shotgun shells and the cost of changing an industry and way of life. As lazy and greedy as "we" humans tend to be, "we" generally choose the ammunition, and hope for the best. Rarely, however, are "we" rewarded with the desired outcome....

tightlines...
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  #19  
Old 07-30-2004, 10:26 AM
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Whew, I haven't heard so much rhetoric since the last US Presidential election and 'the fiasco in Florida' And, I say, Feigie, old chap, a touch heavy handed on the old emoticons wouldn't you say. I guess we got your goat,wot? Methinks thou dost protest too much. You are obviously too blind to read between the lines so let me elucidate:
First and foremost, like, I'm sure most everyone here, I love fishing...but I practice catch and release. If I feel the need to taste salmon, I can go to the nearest supermarket (we do have these here, you know...don't know about where you live) and purchase a fish farm product. If you are talking about Pacific salmon and you need a taste fix so much, why not let them spawn and then go pick them up on the shore after they have 'died inevitably' as you put it?
Second, Juro, if you will check the posts I have made you will at no time see that I advocated "genocide," collective or otherwise, of either the loons or the seals. As a matter of fact, my first post on this thread asked the question "what should be done?" I feel they should be removed once there or, in the case of the seals, prevented from getting in the rivers in the first place. Perhaps, as a citizen of a nation which has a right to bear arms one would have a tendancy to jump to conclusions and think "kill" when the word "remove" is used in this context. But,"Remove" can mean "relocate". Feiger, maybe you as a wildlife biologist more so than anyone else should know this. Surely, at some time or other in your career you have had an occasion to remove a bear,etc. from a location where it could cause a problem? They do it here all the time.. .either by truck or chopper. I suppose you oppose that, too...let them stay in the area and kill or maim some little kid...that's the logical progression of things. The habitat belongs to the bear...the little kid shouldn't be intruding anyway.
Third, there has been no destruction or loss of the magnificant Atlantic salmon's habitat here in Newfoundland. It's still as it has always been, pristine...it's the resource that has been and continues to be destroyed...and yes, loons and seals and now doing their part in hastening that destruction.
Fourth, in this province we have harvested the seas, but,and this is a very big BUT, we are not the ones who overharvested our waters. Go down to your nearest video store and se if you can rent Captains Courageous starring Spenser Tracey. In the early years of my life in a small outport, whose only industry was fishing, what you will see there is how the fish were caught. This later progressed to small capacity side haul trawlers and in later years...just about the time when there were no fish left...with stern trawlers. Again, these were not large boats. We had no factory freezer trawlers...they belonged to the europeans. We had to "fight" like the dickens to get our offshore boundary moved from 12 miles to 200. Russians, Spaniards, French, ...you name it regularly came within 12 miles of our shores. So much dragging was done the bottom is now a wasteland, completely flattened out. But, excuse me ...WE didn't do it. Our shores were the breeding ground of many species and they were stripped bare...a far cry from when John Cabot discovered this island and there were so many cod his ship had difficulty moving through them!!! We no longer fish for cod...but the other nations are STILL coming to our shores...raping what is left of the stocks.
Fifth, see if you can find the excellent book Death On The Ice by Cassie Brown. In it you will see how this island harvested seals, the hardship that was involved, and what it meant to the economy of this small island. Believe it or not, that minimal harvesting kept the stock in check. The herds were, by no stretch of the imagination, in danger of being wiped out.
Sixth. I despise what has happened. However, it has been done and there is very little chance that it can be undone. And yes, the local fishermen saw it coming and did speak out, and yes...the biologists did not listen. Exactly like right now. Unless you have some concrete suggestions, don't spout your rhetoric at me. By the time we follow your suggestion and try to put things back they way they were or should be, the salmon,sadly, will be gone the way of the Dodo bird...extinct!
P.S. As far as complimenting anyone in particular's casting...that's news to me. I haven't a clue what you're talking about. Those were general comments about what fishing is going to progress to...not specific to you or anyone else, Juro. I don't know you, don't know how far you can cast, or could care less. But I do care about the dwindling salmon stocks.
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  #20  
Old 07-30-2004, 10:59 AM
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juro juro is offline
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Chare -

Thanks for taking the time to reply with such vigor. I am completely convinced we share a concern for the salmon stocks. It's good to see people care so much about the salmon, if only all people would share this vigor!

Even if we might approach things from a different angle, we are both anglers who would stand up for the magnificent gamefish of the world.

I just want clarify that when I said "we have ourselves to blame" I was referring to the human race as a whole, not you, or one nation verses another or one interest group verses another. You pointed out some important differences among factions of society and economic dependencies, and I respect that but in the end I do still believe the real harm and thus remoedy comes from big thinking, systemic solutions and cooperation across the thousands of miles of habitat in a single salmon's life. Just as the strong fishing in Labrador is directly linked to the buyout of the Greenland commercial fishery.

Cheers,

Juro
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