Scraping the bottom... - Fly Fishing Forum
Pacific Northwest Sea Run Forum No such thing as rainbow trout, only landlocked steelhead

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  #1  
Old 04-26-2004, 12:57 PM
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sinktip sinktip is offline
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Scraping the bottom...

I see a number of posts about 24' Big Boy tips and compensators and the latest Type xx tips and it got me thinking, for spring steelheading do you really need to get down all the way to the bottom?

My own belief is that once the water temp approaches the mid-40's, you don't need to get much lower than 3' off the sub-strata. For March and April fishing I am much less concerned about dredging then I am for hatchery brats in December and January.

In fact, I suspect that heavy tips work against you as they don't easily allow the fly to cover the shallow water close to shore with out fouling. These lies, especially at first light, are important to cover.

Curious as to what others think.
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  #2  
Old 04-26-2004, 01:02 PM
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I agree and can't wait until June 1. Float and inter tips will make casting a lot easier. It will take a few minutes to get used to lighter tips, but I'll manage.

Matt Burke
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  #3  
Old 04-26-2004, 01:14 PM
flytyer flytyer is offline
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Sinktip,

I agree wholeheartedly. I have always felt that if I'm hanging up on a regular basis, I'm fishing too fast a tip, including in the cold waters of December/January/early February. I want my fly to ride above the bottom, not on the bottom. Afterall, fish aren't lying on the bottom, they suspend themselves above the bottom, which I have always taken to mean that a fly right on the bottom is not going to interest a fish because it is below them.
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  #4  
Old 04-26-2004, 01:23 PM
beau purvis beau purvis is offline
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bottom

I also agree. I fished 12 days in feb and march of 03 with a 10 ft sink tip of type 6 that weighed 110 gr.Hooked 12 bright steelies.Did almost as good in 02 with same setup. Dont need to be deep.I want the agressive ones anyway.My fly only touches bottom if I let it linger too long on swing.If I feel fish are on the inside swing I will lighten my tip another notch to be able to swing shallower.I have a compensator but have not seen the circumstance yet where I felt I needed it. Beau
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  #5  
Old 04-26-2004, 01:44 PM
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Steelheader69 Steelheader69 is offline
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Agree

I rarely use a sinktip after Feb/april. Usually I'm running a floating line up until October. There are some deep pools I'll drag them out for (when fishing summerruns). But I do agree sometimes you'll be overfishing the fish. Bascially dragging your fly under them.

But, also depends on the waters you're fishing to. Some places, the water is running "winter conditions" a good chunk of the year. Except for the recent dry years we've had. I know one year I swung a sinktip every trip to the Duc/Hoh since it was stained and flowing. But in recent years, have actually had some near gin clear conditions.
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  #6  
Old 04-26-2004, 01:54 PM
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sinktip sinktip is offline
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SH69,

Good input on letting the river dictate. I will tend to go with a heavier tip if the vis. is poor in spring or go with a tip over a floater for summer fish if the river is going out. My 2001 and 2003 trips to the Bulkley have been along these lines: <3' of vis and river coming up = light tips.
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  #7  
Old 04-26-2004, 02:30 PM
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I can't disagree with anything said here. The speed that the fly swims is much important in colder temperatures than is the depth.

Fish too heavy a tip is indeed counterproductive as you wont be able to fish in close below you as sinktip mentioned. Additionally, you'll lose time and your "fishing rhythem" (not to mention flies) when you have to be replacing tippet and flies much too often. You'll never get a grab if your hook is not in the water!

Edit: It sounds from what I wrote above that getting down is not important in cold water. It is! But if you're regularly touching bottom... you're too deep!

Last edited by pescaphile; 04-26-2004 at 02:37 PM.
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  #8  
Old 04-26-2004, 03:16 PM
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Brian Simonseth Brian Simonseth is offline
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Number of years ago I sat on a hill side watching a buddy fish a run. He went from heavy tipís too a dry tip. The water was gin clear (you could see the fish from the hill side) The fish would move out of the way with the sink-tips on (sorry sink-tip) but the dry line was amazing fish would move 20 feet for the fly. Like torpedoís, a big education that day. Still using the same fly! We talk about this for awhile, we traded place and he saw the same thing I did. Dirty water is a new ball game, been fishing long time havenít figured that one out yet. Got some good ideas but nothing set in stone yet. And by no means do I have gin clear water figured out. Thatís why they call it fishing.

Every time out there is some thing different. Spending months on different river system is a classroom in it self. Different water conditions, river size etc. make me think how little I know about fly fishing. Thatís why I like going to all these Spey Claveís on different rivers and fishing with different people on different rivers.

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Last edited by Brian Simonseth; 04-26-2004 at 04:36 PM.
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  #9  
Old 04-26-2004, 03:31 PM
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Brian,

If it was easy, we would soon grow bored with it.

You are right on tips and floaters for some fish. OC and I were on a favorite river last November and given it was mid-November and the high air temp the day before we pulled into town was in the mid teens, I went right to the tip. OC stayed with his trusty floater and after watching him catch fish in front of and behind me, I switched too and then began to hook fish.

We ran into someone we knew later that day and he was saying that fishing was tough and everyone had switched to tips and were getting a fish a day at best. We just smiled
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  #10  
Old 04-26-2004, 04:17 PM
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Sink-Tip,

I got curious and wondered about all the S rivers just for Washington State. This is what I came up with. I'll bet I'm missing something.

Matt Burke



Stehekin River
Sail River
Sekiu River
Sitkum River
Sol Duc River
Sooes River
Sanpoil River
Snake River
Salmon River
Satsop River
Sams River
Snahapish River
Solleks River
Sammamish River
Skookumchuck River
Spokane River
Skokomish River
Similkameen River
Samish River
Sauk River
Skagit River
Suiattle River
Skykomish River
Snohomish River
Snoqualmie River
Stillaguamish River
Sultan River
Spokane River
Sumas River
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  #11  
Old 04-26-2004, 04:29 PM
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Matt,

I am touched that anyone even noticed that I changed my blurb. Actually was originally thinking about the usual North Sound S-rivers, then got to thinking about the Skeena and a river father east that starts with an S. This got me feeling bad for excluding rivers that start with B, D, C, and K.

Finally it dawned on me that S rivers could mean rivers that started with an "S" or be short for "Steelhead" rivers.

It is all good so I will let the reader choose.

'tip
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  #12  
Old 04-26-2004, 05:23 PM
andre andre is offline
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Tip,

I popped the cherry on Sean's Carron with a poly leader I've put three fish on the beach dry with the poly this spring. So they will move to a dry line, w/a tip I don't know what would have happened.

The battery died in my digital therm, (so not temp reading), but I spent a couple of hour Sunday morning swinging a bomber at the end of a XLT. I wasn't confident, but wanted to give her a go, nothing came up but hey I was fishing.

andre

check your PM
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  #13  
Old 04-26-2004, 05:46 PM
Moonlight Moonlight is offline
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I don't know!!!!

I do not own either a "compensator" or a tip longer than 15'. I have, however, had some success with sinktips in the dead of winter. I am sure it had far more to do with being persistent than anything else. As a matter of fact I have a personal theroy that when the rivers are a bit off color the fish while moving upstream do so near the surface and I have caught more than a few on tips as I was giving the original mend. Now thats on the surface any way you cut it.
I'm headed out tomorrow to help a friend replace the screw in his "Bougle" and won't be back until after the first week of May. I trust someone here will hold a proper closing ceremony for the S&S C&R season
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  #14  
Old 04-26-2004, 09:31 PM
KerryS KerryS is offline
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Interesting thread. Got me thinking of fishing Lyman Bar about 3 years ago (I can say that because there is no Lyman Bar anymore) using a type 6 tip with no luck. For some reason I switched to an intermediate clear tip. I hooked and landed 3 steelhead within 10 casts of each other. This was by far the best I have ever done and have never come close to duplicating this. I figure my fly was only a foot or two below the surface.

Brian, tomorrow I try something different. Bring a floater.
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  #15  
Old 04-26-2004, 09:57 PM
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Don't need those stinkin' sink tips.

William
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