2004 springers - Fly Fishing Forum
Classic Atlantic Salmon No pursuit rivals salmon rivers, flies & legacy

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Old 03-28-2004, 12:09 PM
lummels lummels is offline
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2004 springers

I wonder if any anglers out there can tell me if this 2004 Salmon season has got off to a very good start?or is it just normal.
I have been hearing of fish being caught off most rivers,Dee,Spey Tay and Tweed also some off the northern rivers have had some good days.
I hear the middle Tweed has fished rather well,along with the middle Dee,are there many coming from higher up? Aboyne and above,what about the Spey in the middle reaches,most people I speak to think its looking brighter this early on.
Does anyone out there have any information on the recapture rates of released fish?or has anyone ever caught a Salmon that has already been caught by rod and line.
I beleive it is commonplace in Russian angling!!
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Old 03-28-2004, 12:28 PM
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Willie Gunn Willie Gunn is offline
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I cannot answer for any of the other rivers but the Spey is well up on last year.
James Butler, Speyboard Chairman said last week

>>Meanwhile, the total catch is 130, with 90% released. For the same
>>period last year the catch was about 50.
>>
Most beats are returning the fish as per the board rules but there are exceptions. The Aberlour Association have killed the first 2 fish they caught. Kineromy are also killing a lot of fish. 7 that I know of. An old fisherman killed a fish at Tulcan D against the rules and the gillies wishes. He had irritated me a lunch time by wittering on what a load of rubbish catch and release is.

released fish can be caught again see, http://www.asf.ca/release/speyapr2003.html

The Catch and Release Tagging Project concluded in 2002 with 386 spring salmon (Feb.-May) and 473 summer salmon and grilse (June-Sept.) tagged and released. Recaptures of spring salmon varied, from 16% in 2000, to 7% in 2001 and 11% in 2002, with an average recapture rate of 10%.

Only two summer salmon were recaptured (0.4%). Recapture rates are highest for February fish, with 30% of fish caught again. However, recapture rates decline as the season progresses, with only 3% of June fish caught a second time. These figures may well reflect the actual exploitation rates of fish entering the river at different times of the year. When analysed in more detail it is evident that among spring salmon, fish caught and released in February-March can be recaptured until May,and fish caught in April-May are vulnerable until July.

Many spring fish can also be recaptured in September when the spawning season approaches. These findings confirm that spring salmon are particularly vulnerable to capture by anglers. Released fish were recaptured in every month except August, and therefore require measures to protect them beyond the spring period. These results underpin the SFB's Salmon Conservation Policy for 2003, which aims to protect spring salmon throuthout the season.


I once caught a fish which I carefully unhooked and was holding in the water till it got its breath back when I suddenlt realised it still had a fly in its mouth. It obviously had broken someone else, it must have had a fly in each side of its mouth.
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Old 03-28-2004, 01:19 PM
lummels lummels is offline
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Hi W. G.

I am pleased to hear that the Spey catches are up on last years catch as I beleive last Spring was pretty good as well before the dreaded drought arrived in early May!!. The 90% catch and release rate is really good for a river of its size,I take it the other 10% at Kinnermony and association were all bleeding badly!!,although I understand that the 1st fish off the Aberlour association goes to the local hospital.what is the policy at Kinnermony? is it anything goes or is it that the catches are that good that the beat has had so many fish that the fish killed have all been second fish!!
Its nice to hear that Tulchan D beat has had fish as they have had a lean few years up there,I take it Robert wont be welcoming his guest back with open arms!!The old school attitudes must change,this is acceptable if it is a youngsters 1st fish (ghillies discretion applied).
I am still off the opinion that the re capture rate of spring fish adds to the figures and it is a pity that the tagging scheme is still not being used.but who cares as long as there are fish in the river to re capture anglers will return!!
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Old 03-28-2004, 01:53 PM
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Re: Hi W. G.

Quote:
Originally posted by lummels
The 90% catch and release rate is really good for a river of its size,I take it the other 10% at Kinnermony and association were all bleeding badly!!,although I understand that the 1st fish off the Aberlour association goes to the local hospital.what is the policy at Kinnermony? is it anything goes or is it that the catches are that good that the beat has had so many fish that the fish killed have all been second fish!!
Its nice to hear that Tulchan D beat has had fish as they have had a lean few years up there,I take it Robert wont be welcoming his guest back with open arms!!The old school attitudes must change,this is acceptable if it is a youngsters 1st fish (ghillies discretion applied).
I am still off the opinion that the re capture rate of spring fish adds to the figures and it is a pity that the tagging scheme is still not being used.but who cares as long as there are fish in the river to re capture anglers will return!!
As far as I am aware Kinneromy have killed everything they have caught.
I understand that the first fish goes to the old folks home but the second?
I totally agree that attitudes have to change I would change the Spey board rules that everything goes back same as the Dee and that bleeding fish are handed in the estate, it is amazing how the numbers of bleeders stopped on the Dee when the estates kept the fish.
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Old 03-28-2004, 02:31 PM
G Ritchie G Ritchie is offline
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Tulchan D have had 6 fish (2 killed), C beat have had 3, B beat have had 2 and A beat are still blank (Up until Friday). Overall I think the catches on most of the Spring rivers in the North-east are well up on last year. Hopefully this is an upward trend.
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Old 03-28-2004, 02:47 PM
lummels lummels is offline
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Hi W.G.

I beleive that you are a member of the board,what action will they take against non compliance?I dont think that total catch and release is the answer,as some anglers might like to take 1 fish home with them after spending quite a lot of money on their weeks fishing, after all these paying tenants are the lifeblood of the river and the local economy its down to commonsense!
The Speyboards policy is I think pretty good if used correctly,I know the Dee policy is different but I have seen this being abused as well,as long as they never go down the old smoked Salmon for fish returned route again as there will be many more fish recorded.
I think it would be considered a great success if the river as a whole were to record a 75% release of fish for any given season that would take care of the people who for whatever reason would like to retain a fish.I think that more people now are realising the plight of the wild Salmon and are happily returning these fish,how many people do you now see returning fish who would never have considered it 5 years ago? they too must be applauded,its all an education but there must still remain a strong pull for these anglers to come and fish Scottish rivers and
be educated by ghillies and other like minded anglers.The last thing we need to be constantly reminded off is the terrible fog at Murmansk Airport and those dammned choppers!and yes I do know they have catch and release as well,just as well as the helicopters would not get off the ground with some of those catches.
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Old 03-28-2004, 02:55 PM
lummels lummels is offline
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Graham

Thats pretty promising!! I shouldnt think it will be too long before J.A. gets his 1st on A beat, heard anything above Castle Grant or association,what about the Dee above Banchory?
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Old 03-28-2004, 03:04 PM
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JS
I'm definately not a member of the Spey board, if I was I would have to be a bit more circumspect with my opinions about certain beats and their appalling record on catch and release. I am unsure what action the board can take as it is only a recomendation and if beats wish to abuse the recomendation there is little they can do.

I fished Cairnton on the Dee and they still offer rewards for returning fish, whisky or smoked salmon I believe but as I failed to catch a springer I never found out.

I cannot understand this compulsion some anglers have to take a fish home. I have seen some awful things killed at the backend for smoking, they would be better smoking some fish flavoured cotton wool.

In my opinion, if these fish killers decide not to return to the Spey the Spey will be a better place without them.

I hear that the Strathspey Association have had a few fish but have not heard about Castle Grant.
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Old 03-28-2004, 03:28 PM
lummels lummels is offline
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Hi W.G.

That clears that one up about the board then!!
I think your cotton wool dark smokers was a good point,thats when I think your thoughts on the Dee rules should kick in,total catch and release after 1st August no exceptions!!
Regardless what walk of life you are in there will always be the greed factor,how many times have you heard the stories on the riverbank? Its just a fact of life!!
You would be a good candidate for the Spey Fishing Hotline!!
Just ask the tennant -Are you going to keep any fish then?
If the answer is yes,you could tell him dont bother coming then and fish their beat
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Old 03-28-2004, 06:14 PM
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Good to hear some encouraging news from the old country.

What's happening at Tulcan these days? I was lucky enough to spend a few days there back in the early 90s but I heard it had changed hands. It would be nice to stay there again one day.
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Old 03-29-2004, 02:48 AM
G Ritchie G Ritchie is offline
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Lummels,
Castle Grant have had a few fish. The Grantown association had 3 fish two weeks ago as had the Abernethy association. Havent heard how they did last week. The Dee is fishing well with fish caught as far upstream as just above Ballater, although as usual for this time of year the majority have been from Aboyne down.

Adrian,
Tulchan belongs to the Litchfields, I believe they have owned it for many years. By the way I see we share the same birthday.
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Old 03-29-2004, 02:56 PM
lummels lummels is offline
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Thumbs up Hi Graham

Thanks for the info
Thats pretty encouraging to see the fish spread throughout
both River systems,this certainly bodes well for the rest of the season,given the right conditions.
Would I be right in saying that Tulchan changed hands in 1995 when the Litchfields bought it from the Panchaud family?
I was speaking to a friend today who was telling me that the Tweed has got off to a cracking start!he had 3 springers in 1 day!
while other guests had 4 more on the same day!!All fish were returned no bleeders!!
By the way happy birthday
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Old 03-29-2004, 04:26 PM
Gardener Gardener is offline
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I'm almost sure the Litchfields bought Tulchan before 1995; I think late '80's would be nearer the mark. Gerald Panchaud (and his son Paul) fished with us in Norway in, I think, 1982. There was a well-founded rumour that anyone fishing Tulchan in subsequent years might have seen a photograph in the huts of Gerald standing behind an impressive array of fish. The truth, though, was that he didn't catch them all himself, but that didn't deter him from posing for the 'hero shot'! He had quite a 'hand' of sporting property; I believe he owned Tulchan, Amhuinnsuidhe and Mar Lodge simultaneously.

Springers do seem to have been better this year. The Fishtweed website reported 157 last week, including 26 for both Lower Floors and Sprouston - the latter is just a 2 rod beat, incidentally - against a 5 year average for the whole month of 30 for each beat. Equivalent sites for Dee and Tay also seen to indicate good numbers compared to the 5 year average. One or two encouraging noises coming from Ireland, too, I think.
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Old 03-30-2004, 10:07 AM
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One or two encouraging noises coming from Ireland, too, I think.

Certainly Currane is looking good ,they have had their largest fish for some ten years at 24lbs and some boats coming in with two fish ,first seatrout are in as well with the first specimen fish coming to the fly .
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Old 03-30-2004, 02:00 PM
lummels lummels is offline
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Thumbs up Gardner / Andy

Hi Guys

Thats cracking news from the Tweed, Currane and the other Scottish Rivers!!This backs up what I have been hearing also.
That 24 pounder from Ireland must have been a specimen fish.
Gardner.
I am still not too sure about that date for the sale of Tulchan!!as I think that I fished it the year it was sold

I wonder if W.G. would know this one?
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