Somthing to think on! - Fly Fishing Forum
Stripers and Coastal Gamefish Stripers, Blues, Inshore tuna!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rating: Thread Rating: 9 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-07-2004, 11:41 PM
Slinger's Avatar
Slinger Slinger is offline
CantAnchorUs
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 733
Somthing to think on!

While manning the booth for the Rhoddy crew at the RISAA show this weekend I heard this tale from two differant people. A study was conducted on lip gripping bass, to see if it had any effect on them. The story goes that some scientist went out and caught ten bass and grabbed them by the bottom lip while unhooking then the fish were placed in a holding tank and in 10 days all the fish were dead. The test was run again and got the same results. Then 10 more fish were caught and carefully cradeled while being unhooked and put in the tank and after ten days all were doing fine.
I don`t know how scientific this study was or if it was even done but it does give rise to some unsettleing questions. Is the long standing and generally accepted way of landing bass hurting them more than we could imagine?
By the way the RISAA show at the Convention Center was one of the best I`ve been to in a long time. A hearty congratulations and lots of thanks to the volunteers who made it such a huge success.
Slinger
__________________
Steve
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old 03-08-2004, 07:03 AM
juro's Avatar
juro juro is offline
Coast2coast Flyfishaholic
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Steelhead country|striper coast|bonefish belt
Posts: 20,585
Hmmm... I'm curious, were the fish lifted from the water and all their weight held by the lip?

Also the details of such a study would be valuable to a community like this, Jeffs, Reel-time and also to CCA et. al.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3  
Old 03-08-2004, 07:50 AM
Roop Roop is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Any
Posts: 1,260
There is a more detailed scientific study & report I read regarding redfish & snook with the same conclusions. I think striped bass were mentioned as well

I will find it and post it.
__________________
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4  
Old 03-08-2004, 09:44 AM
flyfisha1's Avatar
flyfisha1 flyfisha1 is offline
Marine Scientist
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: NYC, South Jersey, Eastern PA
Posts: 1,080
If the "lip-gripping" is the problem, I have two questions:
1. Were the fish held in any sort of plane other than completely vertical, and if so, by approximately how much (and what were the weights of the fish, as well)?
2. If gripping them by the lip was the real culprit, what does that mean for those using Boga grips?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5  
Old 03-08-2004, 09:52 AM
striblue's Avatar
striblue striblue is offline
President of CAC
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Plymouth and Chatham, MA
Posts: 7,518
Yes... I think we should try and get that study and WHO these scientist are. I would certainly want to know about that issue... but at the same time..I would also need to know who sponsored the tests and how the test were actually conducted. But more importantly who conducted them and by who's prompting... It would make a big difference to me if it were done by a legitimate scientific study or some PETA type group in disquise.... just being suspicious. I know i have heard that with big fish it might be a problem. I would also like to know if the size of the fish was discussed as well.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6  
Old 03-08-2004, 10:01 AM
John Desjardins John Desjardins is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Central MA
Posts: 1,839
I seem to recall hearing a similiar discussion about largemouth bass years ago. If my memory is correct it was something about breaking the jaw by lifting large fish vertically out of the water.
__________________
John Desjardins
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7  
Old 03-08-2004, 10:03 AM
Roop Roop is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Any
Posts: 1,260
Quote:
Originally posted by striblue
Yes...It would make a big difference to me if it were done by a legitimate scientific study or some PETA type group in disquise.... just being suspicious.
Valid point John.

Florida Fish & Wildlife have limited informatton on it, I'm having a hard time tracking it down. I might have dreamed it.
__________________
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8  
Old 03-08-2004, 12:01 PM
Roop Roop is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Any
Posts: 1,260
It's the March issue of the Saltwater Sportsman
__________________
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9  
Old 03-08-2004, 12:45 PM
JimW JimW is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: As long as it's Salty
Posts: 1,795
So are the internal organs being damaged by the weight of the bass our of water? If every lipped bass died 10 days after release, seems we'd be seeing the occasional floater out on the water.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10  
Old 03-08-2004, 03:43 PM
Roop Roop is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Any
Posts: 1,260
Sorry for being light on the details - trying to get some work done.

On closer inspection, the writer, who has a PHD in fish physiology, conducted an "informal" study of published photos...

Based on this, he opined that the joint of the jaws is not meant to support all the weight of the fish, especially when you figure it has grown up in a weightless environment.

It also is supposed to cause organ damage holding the fish vertically, tearing mesentaries....

He recommends you hold cradle it in a horizontal position.

RE: why no dead fish seen floating, I saw quite a few last year, more on the inside, plus with the huge numbers of dogfish we have I'm sure the carcasses don't last long.

Roop
__________________
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11  
Old 03-08-2004, 08:21 PM
artb artb is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 515
Tom Meade Outdoor Editor of the Providence Sunday Journal had it in his Sunday column March 7. It told about 20 stripers lifted by the lower jaw, they were kept in a pen, all 20 died. I don't remember how long it took, but the test was repeated, with the same results. A Boga Grip was mentioned as no good either. I also read somewhere where it is no good putting your hands on their bodies, as it removes the mucus, leaving them open for infection. I guess the best way is use barbless hooks, and try releasing without touching them.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12  
Old 03-08-2004, 09:07 PM
Smcdermott's Avatar
Smcdermott Smcdermott is offline
Jonesin...
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 1,220
What are we missing?

It seems to me that something is missing in this study. How is that anglers each year catch tagged fish etc... I know for a fact that I have caught the same fish twice a few weeks apart in a small estuary enviornment and I definitely lifted it by the jaw. I am sure some fish die due to miss handling but I am having a hard time buying that all fish died due to the lip grip.

Sean
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13  
Old 03-08-2004, 09:30 PM
flyfisha1's Avatar
flyfisha1 flyfisha1 is offline
Marine Scientist
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: NYC, South Jersey, Eastern PA
Posts: 1,080
Quote:
Originally posted by artb
Tom Meade Outdoor Editor of the Providence Sunday Journal had it in his Sunday column March 7. It told about 20 stripers lifted by the lower jaw, they were kept in a pen, all 20 died. I don't remember how long it took, but the test was repeated, with the same results. A Boga Grip was mentioned as no good either. I also read somewhere where it is no good putting your hands on their bodies, as it removes the mucus, leaving them open for infection. I guess the best way is use barbless hooks, and try releasing without touching them.
I smell PETA somewhere in this. I would have to say that it pays to treat the fish gently and carefully rather than carelessly, however I have a hard time believing that lipping them is fatal. Besides, I work in the aquarium industry and consult with multi-million dollar operations and I'd love to hear about the specific water parameters in these pens. Sounds like a lot of BS.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #14  
Old 03-08-2004, 10:42 PM
tglynos tglynos is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 55
Send a message via AIM to tglynos
I've also read a study that stated that 10 fly fisherman who used bait scent on their flies were found dead in 10 days as well?

Studies are only as strong as the parameters that are used to test them and must be always compared to a control group to have any validity. granted lipping big fish might be detrimental, but I agree to state that all fish died in 2 subsequent studies smells a little fishy to me too. Were they starving these fish, but feeding the belly cradle fish sand eel delight? The article needs to be reviewed.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #15  
Old 03-09-2004, 08:09 AM
Roop Roop is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Any
Posts: 1,260
Sean's point about the tagged fish is great.

Anyone read those reports? Same fish tagged in the same area year after year.

This year for heavier fish we will be gaffing them in the spinal column instead of lipping.
__________________
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Fly Fishing Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
A little somthing about me. Brennan Baker Member Profiles 8 03-26-2002 11:44 PM
And now for somthing realy new! Slinger >> Archive: Striper (etc) Flies 4 02-18-2002 04:04 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:57 PM.



Copyright Flyfishingforum.com (All Rights Reserved)