Lowholed on the Sky! - Fly Fishing Forum
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Old 02-21-2004, 09:34 PM
Leland Miyawaki Leland Miyawaki is offline
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Lowholed on the Sky!

Who Woulda Thunk?

This morning, I hoofed it into a good loking tailout on the Sky that I had been eyeballing for quite awhile. When I emerged from the woods I saw a couple driftboats had just moved into the pool, so I walked upstream and began working my way down behind them. While I was fishing another four boats came down. They all passed through with a friendly nod and fished the far side on their way out of the pool.

Just as I got into my "honey" water, a white, red and black Clackacraft with three flyfishers came through. I held back my cast as they came by me and we joked about not being at Meydenbauer. Next thing, they pulled off just below me, dropped anchor and got out. They had something to drink and lit cigarettes while they stood around holding their flyrods. Next thing, two of them walked about 15 feet below the boat, waded out and began casting. I continued to cast, but in 10 steps, I was at the boat and couldn't go down any further without seriously impeding my d-loop. I reeled up and walked over to the one fellow in the boat and told him I didn't think that what they did was very nice. I said that six boats came through before them and they all gave me room to fish and that I never expected my fellow flyfishers to lowhole me like they did. He was apologetic and told me he thought they were well below me.

Guys, if you are a lurker and read this, I'm not expecting you to acknowledge yourselves or write an apology. You know what you did wasn't nice. There's a lot of water on both sides of the river that you can fish that we wading flyfishers can't get to. Maybe next time you'll consider that.

This is all I am going to say on this matter.

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Old 02-21-2004, 10:55 PM
BobK BobK is offline
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Leland, this is all too common,

especially here in the Great Lakes. We waders are called "bank maggots", and just considered another obstacle to avoid to the drift boats.

It's too bad - I think stream etiquetteis long gone, and a casualty of modern fishing.

Earlier this year, two of us were sharing a pool, a reasonable distance apart - and some clown walked down between us and started fishing. Both of us stood our ground, and the ignorant SOB kept it up for about an hour. As I was downstream, he tangled my line a couple of times - but I wasn't about to give ground.

Finally, he left. At least three other fishermen came up to us and said the guy was notorious for this. Usually the sportsmen give in, but this time, we got the best of him!

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Old 02-22-2004, 01:07 AM
flytyer flytyer is offline
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Kudus to you for not letting it slide and that you talked to him about how rude and inconsiderate his actions were. If we don't speak up to the offenders when this happens, it will never stop because the will always get away with it and think it is just fine to do. Interestingly, I've been low-holed more often by fly fishers in boats than gear and spin fishers.
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Old 02-22-2004, 07:14 AM
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sinktip sinktip is offline
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If this was a newer Clack and the "boys" were throughing indicators and egg patterns, I think I know where this is likely to find the correct audience. PM me for details.

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Old 02-22-2004, 11:05 AM
Smalma Smalma is offline
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It is unfortunate that the type of behavior you experience has become far too common. It is just part of what I view as a declining angler ethic that Im seeing in the fly fishing community. I feel that is due in part to this new electronic age with the expectation of more or less instant gratification. As a result must anglers have not grown up in the sport under the tutelage of a mentor.

I applaud you stepping up and explaining what many of us consider ethical behavior with respect for our fellow anglers and the resource. The only chance we have to develop a more considerate angling community is if more of us are willing to do the same and set the standard by example.

Tight lines
S malma
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Old 02-22-2004, 11:50 AM
Crusty Crusty is offline
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Leland, occasionally there is justice. Many years ago I was fishing bobbers and yarn below River Mill dam on the Clackamas. I had just netted a nice steely for a 14 year old (who fished like he was 50). While our back was turned a fisherman waded out and took the rock the kid was fishing from (a no no in bait fishing circles). I asked the kid if he wanted me to remove the jerk and he declined the offer. Right after the jerks first cast and while we were watching, he slipped and fell off the rock totally disapearing from sight.

The whole bank started to laugh, most of all young Mike. Well after the guy pulled himself out, Mike was still laughing uncontrolably. I told him to settle down and he said, "You don't understand. A split second before he fell, I thought to myself, "I wish that SOB would fall in.

A fitting end to the incident.

If you can't laugh at yourself, you may be the only one silent.
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Old 02-22-2004, 02:57 PM
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pescaphile pescaphile is offline
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Good job on letting them know Leland. Chances are reasonably good that they knew they were corking you but thought they could get away with it. If they did know, your speaking up will make them think twice about the next time. If they were just ignorant, your words ought to help educate them. Either way, I'd say they'll be less likely to cork another angler.

I remember being corked more than once in camp water on the Bulkley by a couple Germans a few years ago. They didn't speak English so it was difficult to communicate the concept about leaving space below a fisherman to fish through a run. Well, it almost happened again but I remembered just enough Deutsch that, when combined with a surly look and my finger pointing downstream, that he got the point when I growled "Achtung Fritz!! Zwei Hundert Meters!!!"
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Old 02-22-2004, 07:10 PM
rimmy rimmy is offline
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I also passed you in a white lavro ors in the air not to disturb your water. That is a long walk in. But i had trouble down river I was going to a good hole in the past and there was a spey guy in there so oar in the air no line in the water just passing through
he casted his line at me and said you have the hole river to fish. That was uncalled for so i got out to ask why . Why in your right mind would cast a fly with hook on it at me . All i received was i'm sorry. i still do'nt know why !
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Old 02-22-2004, 08:09 PM
Leland Miyawaki Leland Miyawaki is offline
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There is a very good ending to my episode on saturday.

I also posted the same message on washingtonflyfishing.com. I received both a private mail and a posting. A man lent his driftboat to his three friends to use. When they returned and told him what had happened he explained why I was upset. He then emailed me an apology.

His friends learned something about stream etiquette that we both hope will be passed on and on and so on.

It also shows the power of the our net forums and bulletin boards. Instead of ranting and raving about getting lowholed, a very positive solution took place. That makes a pretty good day in my book.

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Old 02-22-2004, 08:35 PM
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Doublespey Doublespey is offline
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Well Done!

Yes, i agree - the best possible outcome given the situation. And another use of our online community - to help spread an understanding of angling (especially steelheading) etiquitte.

I'm glad they were just newbies who didn't know any better - as Smalma and others have commented it's really depressing to see the serial Low-Holers that know exactly what they're doing and continue with it year after year.

A couple years ago on a BC river a flyfisherman made a practice of sneaking into the tailout of a famous run below the lowest angler in the rotation right after first light. He knew there were anglers ahead of him in this run, just like he knew the tailout was one of the best sections to fish in early morning. His reasoning (i'm guessing here) was that the lowest angler wouldn't want to forfeit his place in line to come down there (about 200 - 300 yds) and confront him. He did it morning after morning, to a number of different anglers. Don't know whatever happened, but word had it that the Locals were planning to find out what he drove and dispense some appropriate reminder that his inconsiderate actions were not appreciated.

Rimmy - i've seen these examples of River Rage before. The previous drift boat probably ran right thru his water or pulled in and plugged his run. He was probably just waiting for you to come thru to take out his pent-up anger.

These inconsiderate actions, by boater and bankie alike, are fueling the "ME FIRST" attitude. The rivers are getting crowded too. It used to be that hatchery holes like Reiter were the Combat Zones - now it's the whole river!

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Old 02-23-2004, 01:01 PM
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jjohnson jjohnson is offline
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Mabye the reason that they guy yelled at you was that he didn't even have his full belly of the a short delta (54') out of the rod tip and I could have bounced it of the side of your boat. Most guys take that as a hint and say sorry and pull out of the way especially when there is bunch of river to the other side. You had a hundred 100 or more on the other side of the river and you choose to float right over my water, oars up or not you are still disturbing the water and going right over the soft seem I was working, and you had plenty of room to not float over the water that I was fishing.

So after you float over I shake my head at you and you all yell back "yah yah yah". I didn't and wasn't going to say anything until you yelled at me. So I said well you had the whole river and you choose my half to float over. At which point you stand up in your boat start yelling back at me "are you talking to me" or something along those lines. Froth the water to the bank and come steaming up the bank at me. At which time I said yes I yelled at you after you yelled at me. I said I was sorry if you didn't yell at me but you did.

Oars up doesn't give you an excuse to float on top of the water someone is fishing especially when you had a whole bunch of room to avoid them that has no fisherman or obsticles in it.

On a better note the fifth boat that came down, two guys throwing spoons, tucked really close to me and were good stewards of the river and I thanked them about three times for it.

two sides to every story huh.

PS: Old account not working right now so opened a new one.
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Old 02-23-2004, 01:20 PM
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sean sean is offline
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Interesting discussion. Mainly a bank guy but just starting to get out and float more often and discussions like this only help spread the word on acceptable behavior on the river.

I had a thing come up yesterday on the upper sky. Three guys were floating ahead of two of us and and spread out on a run. The run was maybe 120 feet wide at the top and 2 guys chose to fish about 100' feed apart on one side and one guy on the opposite bank.

They were spey casting and I did not have enough bank to go behind either of them. I chose to float straight down the middle and not row to cause minimal disturbance.

In this case should I have tucked in close to them? This is the first time I came up on this situation with anglers on both sides of the river as usally I will go tight to the opposite bank or behind the angler if his is wading deep.


ps. Jeff let me know the problem you are having and we can try and ressurect your old account and just merge this new one into it.
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Old 02-23-2004, 02:04 PM
KerryS KerryS is offline
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A few years ago I was fishing the NF Stilly and a well known guide came floating down with 2 or 3 clients in pontoon boats. He yelled down and asked whether I wanted them to go behind me or in front. I told him go ahead in front being there was not much river to work with. After they floated by I figured the fishing in this section was done but no. A few casts after they had floated through my water a 6 or 7 lb. Deer Creek buck impaled itself on my fly.

While fishing a popular run on the Skagit last year I had 2 guys in a sled working the water with in my casting range. I was starting to get a little purterbed when right off the side of thier boat I hooked into a 12 lb. native buck.

Again last year while fishing with a friend on the Skagit a sled runs right through the run we were getting ready to fish. I was pissed. My friend simply said that this was his day off and nothing was going to ruin it. He started fishing the run and nailed a 15 pounder.

Because of the above stories and a few more i could tell and because I go fishing to recreate I don't get to upset anymore when boats float over my water. It isn't worth it.
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Old 02-23-2004, 02:21 PM
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jjohnson jjohnson is offline
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Kerry you were right. I had a talk with a buddy of mine that night and came to the conclusion that I went to the river to relax and from now on I was making the choice not to say anything anymore about poor river behavior and just enjoy my time there as I don't ever get enough of it. I can't control how people act just my reaction to it.

I will choose to enjoy my time on the river from now on. No more yelling no more head shaking just enjoyment and let my blood pressure drop.

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Old 02-23-2004, 02:32 PM
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sinktip sinktip is offline
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Each year it gets worse it seems. The pressure on the Sky now is unbeliveable. Brian is right, folks seem to take the Me First attitude. The point about it being the younger crowd seems to be on more often than not although I don't want to make blanket statements. I met a young Navy serviceman yesterday morning on the Sky who was a pleasure to talk with and to share runs with. Jeff's experience did hit home though.

Last week I had some bozo walk 200 yds down the bar, wade behind me, and then walk 80' below and start casting. Leland was much more diplomatic that I fear I was. His response was "were you fishing through here"? No, I was just standing up to my crotch in the water soaking my arthritic joints. And that bright chartreuse thing at your feet, that is a loose thread on my sweater. Please don't step on it on your way out of the run.

Still this pales in comparison to the guy this summer that pulled his pontoon in below me and got out and started casting. When I asked if he would start at the top of the run as was the custom, he replied "no, last time I never got to fish this run because there were too many guys in it so this time I am fishing it". He proceeded to fish through and then headed into the trees and made a big circle back to his Fish Cat where I happened to be waiting for him. I explained my views on etiquette and how I certainly hoped that he would not repeat his actions. He was silent until he was back in his boat and pulling away when suddenly he found his courage and yelled to tell me I was a number of things my mother would be disappointed to hear.

I have found that one of the unsung benefits of a spey rod is to allow you to place a cast across river to show an approaching boat the water you are fishing. Most often they see you can cast to that spot and they give you some room. I have never had to cast at one but I did see Kush almost hook a big blue raft of eagle watchers once. They didn't get it and were oohing and aweing over his casting. Or maybe it was the electrical tape on his cigar.
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