PSE and the Baker - Fly Fishing Forum
Pacific Northwest Sea Run Forum No such thing as rainbow trout, only landlocked steelhead

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-15-2004, 01:25 PM
KerryS KerryS is offline
Skidrow Woolley Fly Club
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Skagit system
Posts: 661
PSE and the Baker

Anyone else watch these guys? What the hell are they doing up there?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	baker river.jpg
Views:	294
Size:	34.0 KB
ID:	2740  
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old 01-15-2004, 01:38 PM
fishhawk1400 fishhawk1400 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: klamath,eel,russian
Posts: 14
It is possible that the gauging station is haveing problems.I dont think that they can ramp the river up and down at those rates.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3  
Old 01-15-2004, 02:45 PM
Jeff Jeff is offline
Active Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: North Umpqua and The Sky
Posts: 110
Actually they are doing this. They are dewatering chum beds by doing this. PSE doesn't care. I believe the way it works with the baker is that it is either all on or all off. Don't know if we can do anything about this. My understanding is that they know this is the situation but the dam is the way it is.

JJ
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4  
Old 01-15-2004, 05:01 PM
flytyer flytyer is offline
Pullin' Thread
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: NW Washington
Posts: 3,346
Since PSE upgraded its turbines on Shannon Dam about 1 1/2 years ago, they supposedly either have let no water through the turbines or have them run at full tilt. And FERC gave them permission to do this!

You are right about PSE not caring about fish. Remember these are the folks who dredged the Baker channel, cut a new "ditch" as a straight shot to the Skagit, and eliminated about 2 miles of prime spawning habitat from what used to be the Baker River's streambed and channel back in the early 60's so they could have the dam work as a peak power facility.

Also, remember the hoopla PSE's PR arm put out 2 years ago about how they were going to restore 1/2 miles of spawning channel by building a "spawning channel" next to the now ditch the lower Baker is. Notice they have not done any work to bring this into existence.

Seems like PSE had been on a PR mission to convince folks and regulators that they care about anadromous fish in order to have thier FERC license renewed through "articulated agreements" instead of the full licensing review process. And this they accomplished last year. Now they can avoid doing many of the things which will help the fish.

Kerry,

Don't you also just love the rate increase they have asked the state public utilities commission to approve? After all, they need the rate increase to "pay for the fish enhancing improvements in the dam operation".
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5  
Old 01-16-2004, 09:13 AM
Smalma Smalma is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 168
It is my understanding that the flow jockeying that occurred this week was a test of new way of managing flows from the Baker projects. As stated before the physical set of the turbines seems to dictate that they essentially be operated all on or off result in swings in flow of nearly 4,000 cfs. The test was to see the what happen when that power was generated full on for 1 hour and off for 1 hour. The result over a day would be the same as operating at half speed. Of course it results in the jagged hydrograp show. In fairness the modeling should that by the time one was 10 miles below Concrete the flows would flatten out (due to the storage effect of the large pools found in the river) with the river level moving up and down a inch or two. The hydrograph down river should that jaggness of the graph seen at Concrete did in fact disappear.

While the concern about de-watering redds was mentioned that is only one of the potential impacts from the flow flucations seen in hydro operations. If the dams were operated as seen in this test the potential of suddenly lowering water levels downstream of the project would be limited to the upper 10 miles or so of the roughly 55 river miles downstream. However the largest impacts on salmon generally has been the strtanding of young fry associated with the dropping of the flow. The young fry hug the banks and are caught in pockets etc and as a result die. This is especially a big problem when those flow reductions occur at night. Since roughly 80% of the chinook, pink, and chum production in the basin occurs upstream of the Baker those fry would still be subject to the flow changes in that upper portion of the Skagit below the Baker. Guess it still remains how PSE hopes to address that issue but I for one don't see reducing de-watering of some redds a win without protection of the fry as they rear and migrate.

Tight lines
Smalma
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6  
Old 01-16-2004, 10:05 AM
KerryS KerryS is offline
Skidrow Woolley Fly Club
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Skagit system
Posts: 661
Smalma,

What do you know about the water coming out of the Baker River Project? It seems to me that in the last few years the water flowing from the lower Baker dam has been extremely colored compare to previous years. It seems that ever since PSE lowered the level of Shannon to do maintainance on their turbines the Baker River has been spewing out some mucky looking water. How much damage if any is this doing to spawning areas below the Baker River? Does the dirty water have any negative affect on fry and/or migrating fish below the Baker? We all know what the mess coming out of the Baker does for fishing. It seems to me that this amount of crap being poured into the Skagit cannot be good.

Thanks,

Kerry

Last edited by KerryS; 01-16-2004 at 10:20 AM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7  
Old 01-16-2004, 10:48 PM
Brian Simonseth's Avatar
Brian Simonseth Brian Simonseth is offline
Jolly Buddha
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: CHROME TRIANGLE !
Posts: 589
Thumbs down PSE

PSE has did nothing for fish! Kerry and I talk about this for years!
They can't run below 3500, so they RUN all or nothing.

Kerry hit the nail on the head(PSE HEAD)
__________________
Brian

THE NEWER CHIEF of E.P.

Real Steelhead Don't Eat Pellets!!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8  
Old 01-18-2004, 10:45 AM
Hammer Hammer is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: the Rogue
Posts: 637
Kerry S,knows what i'm talking about here

has anyone here gotten ,or know of anyone who has gotten study reports from the corpse engineers,,i've been digging into some `stuff' down here in southern ore. ,,;wondering if they just give copies of their studies out ,or,will i get the door slammed on me??
__________________
.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Fly Fishing Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
FYI Baker River Project Brian Simonseth Our Environment 0 08-04-2004 03:07 PM
John Desjardin's Baker's Dozen - Jimmy Fund Auction #13 IronMike Stripers and Coastal Gamefish 3 05-02-2004 01:10 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:10 AM.



Copyright Flyfishingforum.com (All Rights Reserved)