Atlantis casting video - Fly Fishing Forum
Worldwide Flyfishing Discussion Talk flyfishing with members around the world!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-04-2004, 09:07 PM
juro's Avatar
juro juro is offline
Coast2coast Flyfishaholic
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Steelhead country|striper coast|bonefish belt
Posts: 20,585
Atlantis casting video

Here are a couple of AVI movies from outside the Danbury CT Flyfishing University flyshow today. After a quick intro, Andrew from our new sponsor Tightlines Flyfishing tuned right in and was kind enough to cast so I could capture these short videos.

Here is a side-shot showing the stroke and line speed:

(avi file, 1.3 mb)

http://cndspey.com/video/side_shot.avi

I apologize if you are interested and are a dial-up (vs. high-speed) internet user, but you will want to see the next video. There is a loading dock and an SUV parked in the ramp. We are about 150 ft away. The leader and yarn fly cleared the top of the vehicle and landed on the far side of the concrete wall on nearly every take.

Too bad we didn't have a longer running line! The end of the cast gets some drag noise.

http://cndspey.com/video/over_suv.avi

These casts were made with a single backcast. In case you aren't convinced it's really over the vehicle, here's another that has less line speed but more loft distance. You can almost see the running line tighten as the leader clears the roof rack on the strip retrieve.

http://cndspey.com/video/over_suv2.avi

Thanks Andrew, for demoing the Atlantis 1111, more so for your sponsorship of the Forum and Speypages!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old 01-04-2004, 09:16 PM
Brad Brad is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Colorado
Posts: 246
You have to love the sound on those files.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3  
Old 01-04-2004, 09:43 PM
sean's Avatar
sean sean is offline
LBFF Mojo
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 2,160
Nice
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4  
Old 01-04-2004, 11:23 PM
juro's Avatar
juro juro is offline
Coast2coast Flyfishaholic
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Steelhead country|striper coast|bonefish belt
Posts: 20,585
One note on the second vid... the comment "a good one" that you hear afterward was from a European gentleman who was an exhibitor, one who I am certain was an excellent two-handed rod handler, not sure which booth/company. Seeing that we had a double-hander, and no doubt being an experienced "traditional" double-overhand caster from across the pond, he came over telling us what to do and what not to do assuming we would not have a clue. Understandably so, with this stuff being so new in the coastal fly-fisheries worldwide for the most part except for a growing number of pioneer anglers. Afterall, what could these east-coast bumpkins know about doublehanded casting? I want to be clear, it was a generous gesture and he stood by to watch the cast to make sure. But the outcome was enlightening in a way.

Well, I don't really remember what this gentleman was actually telling us about how we were going to screw up the cast if we didn't do this or that... and then Drew let this rocket go.

Quieted, he commented "good one", said nothing more, and went back inside to re-join the show.

I felt a little like a torch had been passed, like the new generation of beach casting that I hope will emerge from this rod and others like it, a new-world discovery wave based on traditional themes. It's beauty is in a power unadorned nor encumbered with tradition for the sake of tradition; instead the most modern design and materials standing on the shoulders of a centuries old concept that two hands are (in many situations) better than one.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5  
Old 01-05-2004, 09:48 AM
Penguin's Avatar
Penguin Penguin is offline
d'PhlightlessPhlyPhisher
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Kape Kodistan, People's Republik of Taxachusetts & Penguinia
Posts: 1,586
Juro...Would you know if...

...After the cast is complete and the running line is smartly paid out, should the rod be inadvertantly yanked from the hands due to the monumental inertial tug of the line and lost in the surf...would my home owners insurance policy cover such a loss?...or would this be considered an act of God and/or physics?

Thank you for your kind time and attention!

BTW...re: laughing gulls (they are NOT laughing AT him, they are laughing WITH him)...
For the benefit of the uninitiated and those who don't already know...
Juro not only communicates with the phish...local birds frequently observe him to gain insight regarding foraging matters and current conditions!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	beachninja.jpg
Views:	896
Size:	14.6 KB
ID:	2675  
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6  
Old 01-05-2004, 10:06 AM
John Desjardins John Desjardins is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Central MA
Posts: 1,839
Juro, Impressive casts. One thing that strikes me from the side view is how similar the casting stroke is to firing off a lure on spinning gear.
__________________
John Desjardins
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7  
Old 01-05-2004, 10:52 AM
juro's Avatar
juro juro is offline
Coast2coast Flyfishaholic
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Steelhead country|striper coast|bonefish belt
Posts: 20,585
I wouldn't know

Seriously, since flyrods and doublehanded rods preceded spinning gear by at least a century, most likely more - I'd have to say it strikes me how similar spinning gear has become to it's predecessor, two-handed overhand fly casting!



Penguin -

I'd suggest taking that safety orange curly-cue off the ignition switch of your boat engine and using it as a "kill switch" from the end of the rod butt to your wading belt. :hehe:
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8  
Old 01-05-2004, 01:07 PM
sean's Avatar
sean sean is offline
LBFF Mojo
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 2,160
Just curious as I could not tell from the video. How much line is he slipping into the backcast??

-sean
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9  
Old 01-05-2004, 04:10 PM
Greg Pavlov's Avatar
Greg Pavlov Greg Pavlov is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: western ny
Posts: 406
Quote:
Originally posted by John Desjardins
Juro, Impressive casts. One thing that strikes me from the side view is how similar the casting stroke is to firing off a lure on spinning gear.
You noticed that too ? The distinction betw fly and spinning is getting kinda blurry.
__________________
Rod Brake
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10  
Old 01-05-2004, 05:37 PM
sean's Avatar
sean sean is offline
LBFF Mojo
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 2,160
Quote:
Originally posted by Greg Pavlov
You noticed that too ? The distinction betw fly and spinning is getting kinda blurry.
With the exception a lure propels a spinning cast and the fly line and rod is doing the work here....

If you look closely even though he casts from down on the side the mechanics are close to a distance single hand fly cast. You have a good back cast , rod drift while shooting line into the backcast, and a good forward cast. He is just using 2 hands.

My money says less than 20% of the board members could throw the line 150' plus like in the video ( I sure cannot) while the majority could do it with a spinning rig.


-sean
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11  
Old 01-05-2004, 06:43 PM
jfbasser's Avatar
jfbasser jfbasser is offline
Pencil me in.....
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: The Nearside of the Middleside
Posts: 1,070
How much room is required to the angler's starboard side with the cast shown in the video?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12  
Old 01-05-2004, 07:24 PM
SpeySteel SpeySteel is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: New jersey & New York - Great Lakes
Posts: 38
Danbury show & Sponsership

Juro -

It was a pleasure meeting with you this weekend. I had a great time. I loved the speys and the Atlantis rods were above my expectations. They were phenomenal in every aspect.

As for our discussion during the show, I would like to come on board as a sponsor of the spey pages and worldwide forum to not only benefit my business but to also offer help for the people who make this website possible. Being that I program my website I understand what it takes to create a website, especially one of this magnitude. Although I haven't participated much on the site yet, I have viewed a lot of the material and have found this website to be very informative and professional. There are a lot of nice people who visit this site, it's a good thing to see.

I would like to donate a Hardy Salmon Bougle MK IV to put up for auction. Let me know what I'll need to do in order to make this happen. You can send me an email or give me a buzz tomorrow. My phone is 973-244-5990 if you've lost it.


Sean -

I'd say I was putting about 4-8 feet into the backcast. To much and you lose control. One thing shooting line into your backcast does for you, even with a single hand, is it allows you to decide when the rod loads. As soon as you pinch the line it quickly straitens out and loads the rod. Then it's just a matter of coming forward in a strait plain with a smooth acceleration.

Andrew
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13  
Old 01-05-2004, 07:37 PM
juro's Avatar
juro juro is offline
Coast2coast Flyfishaholic
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Steelhead country|striper coast|bonefish belt
Posts: 20,585
Quote:
Originally posted by Greg Pavlov
You noticed that too ? The distinction betw fly and spinning is getting kinda blurry.
I'm sorry Greg, but I don't understand. You make a comment but offer no explanation. Could you explain your position on this?

You see it is as obvious as the day is long to me that they are the EXACT OPPOSITE. I suppose a casual observer could arrive at that conclusion. But if the observer knew a thing or two about casting, they would know that they are diametrically different.

Let me explain:

One method casts an object by it's weight, optimally with a line that is as thin and non-existent as possible. In fact, the same cast can be easily done by hand, taking for instance 4 pound monofilament line wrapped around a budweiser can with a 2oz. bank sinker. I could "cast" that 200 ft easily with no real need for a rod but for convenience.

Summary of non-fly methods of casting:

- weight of object is critical to cast
- diameter of line is minimized and it's only essential purpose is to keep you attached to the object you are tossing.
- in non-fly casting the rod is non-essential, just convenient. You don't need it to cast, in fact you don't need it to retrieve and you don't need it to land a fish.

On the other hand casting without anything on the end cannot be so easily achieved. It relies entirely on the thickness and shape of the line, the rod's design is absolutely essential, and the object on the end is a detriment, as opposed to being the critical component of the act.

- weight of object is meaningless, in fact detrimental
- shape and weight of line is essential and needs no object on the end to work best
- the way the rod behaves is critical to a good cast

So in conclusion, where there are three critical components to casting, all three can be used to argue that fly casting is indeed the opposite of non-flycasting.

Imagine this scenario:

A spin caster and a two-handed caster using a shooting head system as we have here are fishing side by side, forgetting for a minute that you can use a finesse line on this rod and throw gentle spey loops if desired. Let's say they are both firing off rocket casts this day.

My grandmother would see no difference between the two, but my father (my fishing teacher and mentor) would likely say "isn't it amazing that the fly caster is able to fish in a similar manner with the spin caster despite using mechanically opposite methods?".

That is in fact the magic of two-handed rods. You can put a short spey head on and underhand cast on a quiet river with the same rod, but when the going gets tough on the beach you don't have to reach for the spinning rod because you can achieve similar feats under tough conditions when needed.

If you don't see that, well I'd have to say you've missed the point!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #14  
Old 01-05-2004, 07:46 PM
juro's Avatar
juro juro is offline
Coast2coast Flyfishaholic
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Steelhead country|striper coast|bonefish belt
Posts: 20,585
Andrew -

It appears we were typing at the same time. Likewise I had a great time at Danbury, very friendly show.

We're all honored to have you guys on board, and that's a very generous auction item, thanks!

One of us will contact you to finalize the arrangements and Sean will put the item up for auction.

Hmm... a nice Bougle.... hmmmm.....

PS, maybe we could do an early bird down there in NJ or up on the Delaware for big trout in 2004!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #15  
Old 01-05-2004, 08:15 PM
juro's Avatar
juro juro is offline
Coast2coast Flyfishaholic
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Steelhead country|striper coast|bonefish belt
Posts: 20,585
Quote:
Originally posted by jfbasser
How much room is required to the angler's starboard side with the cast shown in the video?
Hi JF,

Depends on the caster, but I hope "a good amount". If the caster comes too straight over the top it's very likely that the line will collide with the rod on the way over.

Clearly the shooting head technique Andrew uses here is very effective; his style is to come around low then up into the firing position. He uses a different stroke for his spey casting verses overhand I noticed, using the more traditional arm angles in that case.

I have a different stroke and the next guy might also. I end up with my upper arm from shoulder to elbow about horizontal (straight from shoulder to elbow) and my body angled back a little with opposite foot forward. My forearm from elbow to wrist is angling upward to the rod, about the same position as a regular single-handed cast except the lower hand is out in front of my rod shoulder stabilizing the butt until it's ready to pull the bottom of the rod inward toward the body.

This inward pull creates tremendous load in the blank and the IM8 material generates a lot of line speed while recovering very quickly. This makes it possible to transfer the energy into the cast with very little turbulence, maximizing the shooting distance. This inward pull replaces the haul.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Fly Fishing Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Atlantis Casting Critique (video) capt shiner Art of Casting 13 02-11-2005 11:39 AM
Couple spots open for Sunday's Atlantis Casting Clinic juro Stripers and Coastal Gamefish 7 08-09-2004 03:57 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:56 PM.



Copyright Flyfishingforum.com (All Rights Reserved)