Surprising line system - 145' cast - Fly Fishing Forum
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Old 10-24-2003, 05:04 PM
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Surprising line system - 145' cast

I took a 100' braided mono running line, looped it and stiffened the loop with VIP, then put 35' of LC-13 on it to approximate 450 grains and a 10-12' leader. I tied a fat large rubber band on the leader for something to have on the end (handy for holding the line between practice sessions).

That's about 145' so theoretically if the drag chirps and there's a few feet of backing in the guides, that would have to be somewhere in the vicinity of 145 foot cast. Not a big deal, I watched the guys at Howard Miller Steelhead Park on the Skagit River cast over 175' overhand but that was with lines that had heads 65-70 feet long in front of the running line on 14-15 foot rods. That's a better setup for distance but it's not a good setup for coastal flyfishing by and large.

I didn't have it on a reel at first so I just threaded it with the running line spool on the grass, face up. With a couple of warmups I fired off a cast where atypically everything was just right - and whooosh the entire running line ripped off the spool like a spinning reel and flew out the guides, continuing in the air until it hit some trees. That was a lot more than 145' but it didn't count. What it did do was pique my interest.

With the far end of the running line conveniently exposed, I picked it up and tied it to the backing on an empty spool. The setup was consistently able to reach the backing knot during most of the trial. Of course I could never replicate that "perfect cast" again, but some of them were OK and the distance was amusing if not surprising.

When the drag chirped, it had to be ~145ft with a single backcast. So I stand by the claim

It's not a line I would use all that often, but it would be an excellent line system for large rips like Monomoy Rip or even big girl bar. Any river inlet during peak flow, or nasty surf requiring a real wavecutter would suit the tool. The gut of the rip in front of the lighthouse is out about that far this year, so I would like to explore that before the winter sets in. Where the clam neck drifters hook their fish on the Plum Island ebb in June would be open for business with this line setup too.

Not saying it's a cure all or even a practical line system, in fact it looks like a QD's ugly sister! I'm just saying that a little experimentation can yield some interesting fruit. The LC-13 is level and the grains / diameter does not transition from more to less over it's length, I wonder what a well designed head of approx 28-32ft with similar grain weight and better distribution could do?
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  #2  
Old 10-24-2003, 05:33 PM
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striblue striblue is offline
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Wow!..You may have changed my whole outlook on Surf casting with a fly rod ....for next summer.....Did you get my PM about next week?
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Old 10-24-2003, 07:39 PM
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I'll go check and respond, if it's fishin' the answer is yes (or at least I sure hope it is!)
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Old 10-24-2003, 08:15 PM
Paxton Paxton is offline
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Whew!!!! Thank God you "only" flew the line 145 feet, now if you caught a bass on land using a rubber band, I would have to retire from the sport forever:hehe:
Seriously Juro, someday I've got to see that thunder stick in action!
Ron
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Old 10-24-2003, 10:25 PM
flytyer flytyer is offline
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Juro,

Prior to getting a 2-hander and fishing almost exclusively with on for steelhead and Pacific Salmon, I used 25# Gudebrod braided mono as a running line with floating bellies and looped 10 to 13 foot tip systems on my single had rods. I still fish trout and largemouth bass with a single-hand rod and lines set up that way. I taught a flyfishing class Peninsula Community College in Port Angeles when I lived there and had some students insist that I cast as far as I could with the head and braided mono set up. They measured casts of between 145 and 160 ft for the three distance casts I made with my 11 ft 8 wt Loomis rod, 9 wt head, and braided mono running line.

At one time, about 6 years ago, I gave very serious consideration to using half of a salmon double taper reversed so the the taper could be attached to braided mono as a long (60 ft + 15 foot floating or sinking tip) shooting head of 75 feet for use with my 2-handers when fishing large rivers so that I could spey cast to mid river on the Skagit. I decided not to because it is nearly impossible to control the drift at the 150 to 180 ft I would have been casting with a rig like that. And I didn't want to strip all that running line back in after each cast.

A stiff braided mono like 25# Gudebrod is my favorite running line. It shoots very well, has fewer tangles, and has a bit of mendability. I have fond memories of fishing Tricos on Montana's Missouri, Yellowstone, Clark's Fork, and Bighorn rivers with my 9' 4 wt and the braided mono running line with floating shooting head to cast to fish that you could not wade closer too due to river depth. Casting and effectively fishing tiny Tricos or BWOs at 70 to 80 ft was simply a matter of picking up the line, one backcast, and casting it back out to the feeding pod without false casting.
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Old 10-25-2003, 03:41 AM
Robert Meiser Robert Meiser is offline
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Juro,

I too have found the braided monos to be excellent running lines on the overhead... They do allow heroic distances.

But, Have you ever tried braided spectra... gel spun...Izorline...Lots of names... In the 250 to 300# range, this poundage to get the dia's right.

145 feet of distance is cool, but the hook set with braided mono running line at these distances becomes a real issue....Streeeeeetch !

You end up having lots of distance with very little hook set potential on a hard mouthed fish.

Gel spuns have nearly "0" stretch no matter what the distance, and the bigger dia's will not wad-up on the spool...And Oh lordy will it fire off the distance...Deck or basket.

Standard procedure out here for two hands in the salt.

Give er a try.


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Old 10-25-2003, 04:34 AM
2HandTheSalt 2HandTheSalt is offline
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Hey Bob, what does the gel-spun running line do to your hands after you set the hook? Is the larger diameter less damaging or do you guys wear chain-mail gloves like the knights of old?

Does anybody fish that Rio SlikShoter stuff?
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Old 10-25-2003, 08:02 AM
skyomish skyomish is offline
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Running line

Try using 50 lb. flat mono as running line between the backing and the shooting head. I have a three weight set up like this and use it in fresh and saltwater. I get about 250 yards of backing on a 4 wgt. reel this way. I think I got the flat mono from Cortland.
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Old 10-25-2003, 11:10 AM
skyomish skyomish is offline
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gelspun cuts

Yes, the gelspun can hurt! On a hard running fish it can cut you like a knife! A little duct tape or similar material strategically placed on your fingers goes a long ways.
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Old 10-25-2003, 11:15 AM
Robert Meiser Robert Meiser is offline
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Hey Jay...

Not as bad as that really...But a good point.

Let me talk a little later, gotta get to the Ashland Clave, and am already late.

Later Skater.....Meiz
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Old 10-25-2003, 05:19 PM
Eddie Eddie is offline
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the flat 30# mono offers amazing distance, but it is slippery to handle. The braided mono will saw through a wet left index finger when stripping. Too much stretch on either (@ 145'!).
300# spun Gel...hmmm. Sounds like a tangle would end the day, but worth a try.
People have threaded spun gel into the braided mono, but that could take a while.
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Old 10-25-2003, 07:41 PM
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Great feedback and thanks for the info on shooting line options. The rationale for this experiment was not to build a fishing line per se. I've been the XRL route and have the finger scars to prove it, just never played with LC-13 as a head before. I tried it as a sinktip once many years ago - didn't like it and hadn't touched it since.

As far as braided line it was a total fluke. I was in the mood to experiment and I could not find an intermediate running line that could be spliced the way I want at the closest shop so splurged $8 for 100' of the braided stuff. I then figured what the heck spend another $9 on the LC-13 from a bulk spool. Really surprised me when the thing shot like a gun! Most everyone who tried it at the clinic today in Rhody shot it to the backing as well, and with such a junkyard wars setup

But a serious fishing line? No, I plan to try a number of things after this, of course they will include a real shooting line. The head is key, perhaps Rio's T14 is the grown up version of the LC-13 ugly duckling, or maybe the airflo heads. Or perhaps the big Rio Scandinavian head with all the floating removed, who knows. My point is experimentation for two-handed casting is a big part of the fun and the results are promising.

I also want to play around with express airmail system for big poppers (really big poppers, like can't be ignored poppers). I am thinking something in the way of the old saltwater bug taper heads or chopping a billfish line to suit to meet the challenge of 1" diameter livebody bangers or custom cut plugs from lobster bouys.

It will be interesting in any case.
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Old 10-25-2003, 11:12 PM
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I came up 10ft short on my first try but hit the end of the backing on the next 10 or so casts. Its something to stand there and watch that head sailing out into the far far distance. Line management will be an issue in some situations but this was an eye-opener for me.

Junkyard setup? Sure!

Elegant? Definitely not!

Effective? With a "friendlier" backing You bet your a**
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Last edited by Adrian; 10-25-2003 at 11:15 PM.
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Old 10-25-2003, 11:33 PM
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Just to prove your never too old to learn somthing new, took my first try at the spey rod today and found that it was the same thing that I learned from the old market fishermen that came down and settled in the northern part of Rhody, and I thought we were just real good roll casters!
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  #15  
Old 10-26-2003, 07:58 AM
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You are real good roll casters! I don't think I ever saw anyone pick up the switch cast so quickly.

To learn the rest of spey casting, you'd practice the various ways of getting the line from the fully swung downstream position to that starting position for the northern rhody roll cast, using from 55 feet to over 100' of line.

For downriver wind on the left bank, you'd need either a leftside or cross-body cast if you're a righty. That's about as complicated as it gets.

It's very pleasant once you get the knack and provides distinct advantages in limited space conditions, not to mention another flyfishing adventure to the accomplised single handed caster.

Yesterday was pretty bad with a very stiff headwind (the one wind that you can't do anything about) and a lot of wavelets on the water to mess up the anchor. Therefore it was hard to get consistent casts in the saltwater conditions. I am not used to saltwater spey casting - I have to go wash all my spey gear now!

As I mentioned, this casting style is absolutely tuned to river fishing but has many applications in any current flow fished with a swing.

The very different beach casting rods are a straight out and strip technique that are not much different from the single hander, but with more capacity. These are very different rods and casts.

I think there was more overall interest in the beach rods yesterday, especially in the coastal context of Quonochontaug breachway. I believe if we were on a river pool somewhere the spey fishing thing would have been more fitting.

But I very much appreciate everyone who came by and listened, tried the rods, and had some fun.

Special thanks to Peter and Craig at Saltwater Edge for the refreshments and the ideas on times, locations, etc!
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