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Stripers and Coastal Gamefish Stripers, Blues, Inshore tuna!

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  #16  
Old 10-23-2003, 03:06 PM
DFix DFix is offline
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Juro, I'll ask again - will one of those double-handed sticks throw a hank of yak hair or not?
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  #17  
Old 10-23-2003, 03:15 PM
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Dave

On behalf of Juro, and based on solely limted opportunity to play with one (hopefully soon to be rectified) I would bet that they have the backbone to throw the afformentioned hair and fur concoction over the horizon
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  #18  
Old 10-23-2003, 03:25 PM
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Dunno -

I'll try it though! :hehe:

Realistically, the truth behind the matter is whether the line/leader can throw the chicken or not, and thus can the rod throw the line to throw the chicken. Furthermore can the angler throw the rod (to throw the line...) without pain and threat of bursitis for a 10-12 hour day?

We've been working backward from the latter to the former, and the experimentation has been very positive. A standard 11-12wt line is less grains than a 7/8 spey line, just to get the comparison into perspective for two-handed casting. It's possible that we could have gone to AFTMA 13-14wt and still had a rod that could be cast for a long day without wearing the caster out, provided the caster is letting the rod do the work.

The rod has been painstakingly refined by CND to throw 11wt and 12wt factory lines (e.g. Wulff 12wt Tarpon and Intermediate Bermuda Triangle WFI), a line that I have found to be able to throw sandwich bags, wads of eel grass and big synthetic flies made of the majority of three hanks of ultrahair, flashabou and aluminum eyes on a Prince 7/0 hook to 80 feet.

I still don't know what the limits of shooting heads, thin running lines, or 35 ft of LC-13 will do, but I did try a 450 grain QD with a short leader and it would lob just about any fly in a bluewater flyshop out into the feeding zones for surf feeding fish.

I don't have a whole hank of yak hair handy but if that's a measure of the rod/line/leader's abilities, let's call it the yak factor and see how many it can cast. If a rod can cast half, we'll give it a yak factor of .5; if it does the whole hank we'll rate it 1.0YF, 2.0, etc.

I need to hit the flyshop!
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  #19  
Old 10-23-2003, 03:40 PM
DFix DFix is offline
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I think what you'd better do before you go assigning a factor to the results is get a look at the pattern!

Sounds like I'm gonna hafta send one each to Sir Adrian the Smooth and GamaMukaiSan for testing purposes!

Whaddya think?

(I might even hafta get in on this two-handed stuff with this idea in mind! )

Last edited by DFix; 10-23-2003 at 03:44 PM.
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  #20  
Old 10-23-2003, 03:47 PM
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striblue striblue is offline
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I am sure... without having done it ...that those rods can throw anything.... Anyway,I use yak hair for my bald spot... salt and pepper color, super glue and I'm off to paint the town red!!!!
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  #21  
Old 10-23-2003, 04:06 PM
DFix DFix is offline
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Go back to sleep!
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  #22  
Old 10-23-2003, 04:24 PM
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Seriously about all this:

- they can definitely throw more 'matter' because they throw more grains for the same or less effort

- they can definitely handle much bigger fish because there is more power available in the rod

- they can definitely throw further for the same amount of energy once the stroke is learned, which is not difficult

- you can throw off either shoulder for a long way, often the whole line so excessive wind is not a big problem

- it's an open door ready to be explored for all it's possibilities... I am sure there will be a whole new suite of flies developed around two-handed surf fly fishing that would have been deemed impractical with a single hander. Who knows what line systems will evolve around it, just look at the Spey rods out west and the explosive evolution of lines and techniques.

From a more local perspective you could look at it this way...

Spin fishers don't have one rod/reel setup, they have at least two - a surf rod for livelining and eeling and a light rod for sluggos, yozuri's, etc. They don't try to throw a pogie on the light spin gear and they don't try to throw a sluggo on the surf rod.

When you think about it, we are all fishing the light spin rod with the virtual sluggo.

This rod is about having a surf fly rod for those times when you want to fish at the next level, a level that clearly exists in the ocean and has some real rewards associated with it for those who want to explore it.

There are certainly limits to what a few hundred grains can propell through the air. It may lead to a comfortably casting 13-14 weight Atlantis in the months to come, who knows. In the other direction we are working on the lighter version that takes the lines you already have, but it will take some time to complete the whole development and testing cycle. The prototype genII casts very well with the 325-350 grain lines already, but the standard intermediate clear tapers that are on the market nowadays aren't very good at loading rods. I suspect that's why most go up to 10wt lines for their intermediate lines on their 9wts.

If nothing else it's an adventure!
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  #23  
Old 10-23-2003, 04:32 PM
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Some fo us fish with the virtual 12 inch surface plug too

This is very exciting stuff and what better time of year to be experimenting!
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  #24  
Old 10-23-2003, 04:52 PM
2HandTheSalt 2HandTheSalt is offline
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I find myself in the unlikely position of being nearly a hundred percent in agreement with Juro here

The line pretty much dictates what flies can be comfortabley thrown with it. You can go a bit bigger with the two-hander than with a one-hander of equal line-weight, but not gobs bigger. But you can throw a much bigger line with two-hands. How many are comfortable one-hand casting a 12-weight in the surf for a full tide?

Dave, I have a set of 14-weight shooting heads and a rod that might just do the deed. Bring some of those porpoise patterns down and we will give them a go.

Regarding the original question of the post. I have been saying for some time now that one of the most serious advantages of two-handers is that you can more comfortably work bigger lines and flies. Question" Why do those plug guys catch so many more big bass than the fly guys?

I think the answer is that there are not many fly fishermen getting big flies in front of big fish. At least, I am convinced of it.

It will take some more time to prove it, though......
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  #25  
Old 10-23-2003, 05:23 PM
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The Slammer

This spring I was fishing the upper bay with Slinger targeting bass that were on full sized pogies. Slinger was using his trusted half and half and I went with a Sedotti Slammer. The results were that I caught fewer fish but much larger ones. I have had this experience enough times to think you do need size when the fish are targeting larger bait. Of course, I have found the same logic applies when they are targeting small baits (small flies). Match the hatch is where I always start. I am looking forward to working the two-hander in the surf. I hope to see a nice hearing run down the RI shore in November and I am guessing big flies will be the ticket.

Sean
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  #26  
Old 10-23-2003, 06:33 PM
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Quentin Quentin is offline
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Those super long flatwings are supposed to imitate larger bait. Do they seem to help to filter out some of the smaller fish and get the attention of the larger fish? Or does it seem like the big fish prefer a bulky fly that moves a lot of water?


Hey Sean, what kind of "twinkie" is that in your avatar?

Q
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  #27  
Old 10-23-2003, 06:43 PM
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Wahoo!

Quentin,

That is a Wahoo I caught on my honeymoon on traditional gear. The full report is under the blue water board.

Sean
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  #28  
Old 10-24-2003, 02:34 PM
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Q,

Superlong flatwings are one approach but they are designed to be drifted in the current (river or longshore) or worked fairly slowly - usually on floating lines. That way they create the illusion of bulk in the water. Strip 'em fast and you've got yourself a knigsize eel immitation - not the original idea but might also do the trick They do offer the advantage of being a bit easier to cast on a single handed rod.

Big rods offer an additional advantage over pure leverage and distance though - i.e. the additional presentation options the extra length provides - ease of mending & control in heavy surf.

I think there is lots of room for experimentation with both approaches - on/at the surface and down'ndirty.

Bulkier patterns that push water and setup vibes would seem to be an advantage in heavilly roiled/stained water. I would love to try some overgrown variations on the booby theme over the sandbars at dead of night.

See you all tommorow
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  #29  
Old 10-24-2003, 03:02 PM
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Dble Haul Dble Haul is offline
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Overgrown boobies at night? Sounds like a nightclub I used to frequent...

Wish I could join you guys, because Juro definitely piqued my interest with the two handers on South Monomoy. My folks are down this weekend, and I might get my dad out for a while. If you hear screams coming from the shores of Waterford across the state line in CT, you'll know we intercepted some fish.

Have fun, and I hope you get into some fish to boot!
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  #30  
Old 10-26-2003, 08:01 AM
medic3 medic3 is offline
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the problem with extra long flatwings like the eel punt is the hackle tends to want to foul around the hook, i personally have a half dozen foot long yak hair eel flies that i throw 50-60 feet with a 450 grain depth charge line with a 10#, best results for me anyway is if you let the loop open up a bit, slow down the casting stroke as if you were chucking nymphs with a few pieces of shot, stiff, short 20-30lb staight leader of about 3' in length....i can't throw it a country mile, but then again, at 4 am the cows are at my feet.....47lbs is my top fish, from terra firma, or at least terra damp.....
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