Tying a nail knot in the field... - Page 2 - Fly Fishing Forum
Works for me! Tips and techniques worth sharing

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  #16  
Old 07-27-2004, 06:52 AM
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Thanks for the reply. I use foam flyboxes most of the time (except for the swingleaf wheatleys) and the needles are poked into the foam and always available. I prefer the double-ended (eyes on both ends) because there is no point on them. I tie a loop of 30# backing thru the other eye and it stays on a zinger.

You just gave me a great idea... why not just drill a hole across a small nylon tube fly tube? That way it's cheap, not sharp and pulls the line thru the wraps for you too. A combination of the two ideas.
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  #17  
Old 07-28-2004, 05:45 PM
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Great Post

Juro, great idea on the doubled flyline to complete the nail knot.

I'm curious about the uni-knot connection of the butt section to the flyline. I suppose it works the same as the albright or blood knot - wraps digging into the flyline coating.

I have found that the blood knot on Rio clear intermediate lines does not hold. That is, the crimped flyline coating separates from the monofilament core. Thus, I now use an albright on this particular intermediate line with a light coating of Knot Sense to taper and smooth the knot.

As suggested, a blood knot on doubled flyline should conceivable work the same as an albright.

Good thread.

Simms
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  #18  
Old 07-28-2004, 06:15 PM
flytyer flytyer is offline
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JimS,

The albright with a uni-knot tied with the tag end of the backing or leader that gets pulled up tight against the doubled fly line loop of the albright makes for an extremely secure connection. It is how I attach the backing to all my fly lines.

Also, a nail knot or uni-knot tied over double fly line end makes for a very secure line-leader connection. Just remember to place 2 turns of the knot under the fly line tag either in the middle of the knot or at the very end near the fly line's loop to make sure it won't slip. This works with any fly line.
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  #19  
Old 07-29-2004, 08:22 AM
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Flytyer:

An albright with a lock (3-turn uni-knot) coated with Knot Sense is my standard flyline to butt section connection on my saltwater lines.

Thanks for the info on the blood or uni-knot on the doubled flyline with a two-turn lock on the tag end. Is this a more secure connection than the albright with a lock?

Simms
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  #20  
Old 07-29-2004, 09:33 AM
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I assume you guys are talking nail knot, not blood knot in the above - or are you actually tying a blood knot between flyline and butt?

I've never had to do it for braided core lines of any kind but mono core lines are a different story - I like a doubled nail with the butt passing thru the folded over line best.

My favorite of all is the epoxy splice but it's not something you do in the field.
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  #21  
Old 07-29-2004, 01:21 PM
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Brain Fade

I meant nail not blood knot when referring to connect butt to flyline.

I have used the epoxy splice on trout size connections, but admit a twinge of concern on larger species; alhtough, Dave Whitlok uses it with confidence on his connections. This splice can only be used on multifilament cores, I believe.

Simms
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  #22  
Old 07-29-2004, 01:35 PM
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Thanks for the correction Jim, you're right that splice comment should have included "only for braided cores".
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  #23  
Old 07-29-2004, 06:56 PM
flytyer flytyer is offline
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JimS,

The nail knot or uni-knot on the doubled fly line does not have 2 or 3 turns in front of the doubled line like with the albright knot. Instead, what you do is tie the nail or uni-knot on the doubled fly line and as you are tying the knot, make sure that 2 or 3 turns of the knot go over both line legs, then 2 or 3 turns go over only one of the line legs (not both of them), followed by having another 2 turns of the knot over both line legs. With the nail knot, you then insert the tag end of the mono, thread it through the knot loops, and pull it tight. With the uni-knot, all you need do is pull the knot tight.

It is very secure because the 2 or 3 turns that go only over one and not both line legs locks the knot in place and prevents it from sliding off the end of the line or pulling the coating off the end of the line. This is how Aiflow recommended a leader butt be tied to the old single filament kevlar core lines they made back in the mid-late 80's.

Personally, I find the albright with the 3 turn uni-knot lock is easier and faster to tie. Back when I used the modified nail or uni-knots (as per the instructions above) they were very secure and would be comparable to the albright with uni-knot lock. Some folks don't like the look of the albright knot though and that is why I mentioned the slightly more compact modified nail or uni-knots.
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  #24  
Old 07-29-2004, 08:32 PM
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Flytyer, thanks for the info on the uni/nail knot approach to a butt section on a doubled flyline. I'm so used to the albright with the lock, that tying a different knot, unless it is superior, will be my preferred approach.

New Question:Attaching LC13 or T14 to a running line, e.g. Rio Intermediate (.030 or .035) seamlessly, what approach do you recommend. What I have done is to use (per Bill Nash?) 50lb Guidebrod braid. He recommends about four inches per line, or a total of 8 inches with about an inch of overlap. Nail knot the overlap and the ends of the braid. It appears to be secure and somewhat smooth, but a more seamless method would be ideal. Any thoughts?

Tks,

Simms
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  #25  
Old 07-30-2004, 12:24 AM
flytyer flytyer is offline
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JimS,

I really like Gudebrod braided mono because it is stiffer than the other braided monos I've found on the market. I use it is either 35# or 50# for making loop on tips or line bellies. I either strip about 3"to4" of the line coating to expose the core, put a drop of super glue on the very tip of the core, slinking the core up inside the braided mono, double the mono-line core to form a loop of about 1/2" to 5/8", then nail knot the loop end to the line with 3 nail knots (the first one is place just in front of and tight against where the line coating ends) made with 10# mono (type of mono makes no difference). I then overwrap the loop from the first nail knot to the end of the line tag with flat waxed nylon or 3/0 Uni-thread. Cover the whole thing (including the loop) with Aquaseal or Loon SunCure to smooth it and stiffen the loop.

The other method I use at time is put a 4" to 5" piece of 20# or 25# maxima in the braided mono to stiffen it, loop this over the line end, then nail knot it to the line with 3 nail knots made with 10# mono. This also gets covered with flat waxed nylon or 3/0 Uni-thread to smooth it and tje whole thing including loop is likewise covered with Aquaseal or Loon SunCure.

If you are in a hurry, you can form the loop with the second method using the 20# mono in the braided mono and then use a piece of shrink tubing to cover the nail knots and smooth it out. The problem I've found with using shrink tubing is the line coating will crack and fail next to the shrink tubing after about 60 days of use. This is due to the heat needed to shrink the shrink tubing and the extra stiffness the shrink tubing imparts right where there is a lot of energy being transfered into the tip. The Aquaseal or SunCure coated loop will not have the line coating crack until the line is worn out.
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  #26  
Old 07-30-2004, 07:09 AM
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Jim -

If I understand correctly your question is not about making loops but seamless connections.

To make the best seamless connections at least one of the two sides should have a braided core. You mentioned t-14 and clear int running. I am not certain if t-14 has a braided core but you can sure find many running lines with it. (I have a bunch and will check)

Another option is to use about a 6" joiner section that has a braided core to pull both the clear int and t14 into from either side.

Then just follow the standard pin vise splicing methods for seamless splicing.

.02
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  #27  
Old 07-30-2004, 10:04 AM
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Flytyer, thanks for the info on tip and belly loops. Of particular interest was the use of three and not two nail knots for the tips, and covering them with flat-waxed or uni-thread. Coating the entire loop/braid with Aquaseal or Knot Sense is a terrific idea for smoothness. In the past I have only coated the nail knots.

Juro, the only way I know to connect LC-13/T-14 to a monocore running line is with Gudebrod #50 braid. I have some multifilament running lines, but they are floaters, and I want to use intermediate to get maximum depth with the heads.

Thanks again guys for the input.

Simms
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  #28  
Old 08-13-2004, 07:34 PM
t_richerzhagen t_richerzhagen is offline
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Mono core

for T-14. You can make a nice loop for the end of T-14 with braided mono.
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  #29  
Old 10-13-2004, 06:38 PM
2tancaddis 2tancaddis is offline
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Nail knot Tool

Check this tool out. I keep it on my lanyard. It makes tying nail knots a piece of cake.

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  #30  
Old 01-13-2005, 11:42 AM
TheSeph TheSeph is offline
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5 finger discount

ON the water i discovered i had left my nail not tool at home....boo....

after a moment of thinking i simply used my index finger and thumb pressed together(similar to the shape your hand takes when you signal to a waiter that you are ready for your check) With my fingers held in this fashion I pinched the section of fly line i wanted to tie onto. I then wrapped the mono around my fingers 5 or 6 times then pinched the tag with my thumb and forefinger thus pulling the tag back under/through the wraps made around my thumb. After tightening carefully you get a nail knot. I also use this knot doubled on itself to tie flies to the leader(its a much better knot than an improved clinch)
sorry if it didnt make sense its one of those knots you have to see done for it to make sense i think.

sidenote is that unless you practice this a bunch an albright will be easier
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