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  #1  
Old 09-19-2003, 10:02 AM
dewey dewey is offline
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tippet/fly question.

I have a pleasant dilemma.

I have been fishing a favorite stream lately, and after some trial and error have managed to hook up.

What's worked has been a small (16-18) brassie fished on 5x.

These are strong, fat Landlocked salmon, though. I am having real trouble landing these guys. I am only landing about 1/4 of the hookups, and i'm afraid I'm playing the fish too much.

So - any suggestions on getting a smaller fly on a sturdier tippet?

Ideally, I'd do 3x, but I can't even get that through the hook eye.
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  #2  
Old 09-19-2003, 10:26 AM
John Desjardins John Desjardins is offline
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Maybe try a fresh spool of tippet stock. I've found that 4x and thinner tippets are weaker if they are left in the car through the summer.
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  #3  
Old 09-19-2003, 10:46 AM
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Dble Haul Dble Haul is offline
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John has the right idea, although I think you might also consider trying fluorocarbon. You can get the same strength in a finer diameter, or a stronger strength in the same diameter.
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Last edited by Dble Haul; 09-19-2003 at 11:06 AM.
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  #4  
Old 09-19-2003, 10:46 AM
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juro juro is offline
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The new generation of flouro is thinner for # test as I understand it. I use the 16# sight-free in SWFF and it's been very impressive in terms of stealth and strength. Might work here?
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  #5  
Old 09-19-2003, 01:09 PM
Bob Pauli Bob Pauli is offline
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Broken tippet

A favorite fishing spot for me is Northern California's Fall River, a spring creek with gin-clear water and spooky fish.

For nymphs to size 16 I recently began to use 4x Rio Fluoroflex Plus, labelled I think, as 7 lb. test. You can tow a boat with this tippet material.

Last weekend I spent 5 hours testing hookup frequency with 6x Fluoroflex Plus vs. 4x of the same material. While not a statistically valid technique, I did fish the same runs using the same flies, same length leader, same technique [cast & swing and cast & strip, no indicators]. Trout landed ranged from 15 to 22 inches.

There were no more hookups using the 6x material compared to 4x. There were no tippet breaks with 4x and two tippet breaks with 6x.

And the stronger tippet allows aggressive fighting and quick landing of even 5+ lb. native fish.

FWIW.
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  #6  
Old 09-19-2003, 03:31 PM
dewey dewey is offline
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Thanks for the input. I'm going to get some new 4x flouro (assuming I can get it up here- not too many shops) and give 'er a go this weekend. I'll let you know how I fared.
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Old 09-19-2003, 07:26 PM
josko josko is offline
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Interesting. All the fluoro I've been using is weaker than same-diameter mono, eg, Orvis Mirage 6x is weaker than Orvis Super Strong 6x. Is there a new line of Fluoro tippet material out where this is not the case?
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  #8  
Old 09-19-2003, 11:52 PM
BobK BobK is offline
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Generation 2 Fluorocarbon...

Yeah - most fluoro leader and tippet brands are using the older Generation 1 stuff. The newer Gen. 2 stuff is only carried in a few brands. I am sure about the Rio stuff - they carry "Fluoroflex" (which is Gen. 1) , and "Fluoroflex Plus" (Gen. 2).

Gen. 2 is stronger for the same diameter, but also costs a little more. (I prefer the Gen. 2 stuff.)

BobK
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  #9  
Old 09-22-2003, 03:12 PM
dewey dewey is offline
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Well - I went back.
the fishing was not as good as last week. No rain (Izzy missed us) of any consequence for a few weeks, so the fish in there have been there a while. Water is very low.

Anyway, hooked three BIG fish. Lost three big fish. I tried new 4x - broke very quickly. I tried month-old 3x flouro (orvis mirage) - hook pulled free. I can't say there wasn't human error here, but I am getting frustrated.

I also tried to get some brand new rio flouro plus, but I can't find anything even close around here.

Anyway - I've decided I need a 7 wt to handle these dogs (the 5wt feels like a toothpick). Then maybe the 3x flouro - although I'm afraid the stiffness of the material is preventing a good drift for the small fly - will do the job. 6-8lb test should,if I'm on top of my game, do the trick.

You should see these fish! Broad shouldered brutes that jump repeatedly when hooked!
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  #10  
Old 09-22-2003, 03:43 PM
BigDave BigDave is offline
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What does the line look like where it broke? No pigtails hopefully!

I agree about everything said about the Gen 2 floro. Can't beat it for diameter, density and also abrasion resistance which might be what you need.

I can only think of 2 suggestions for you:

Try using a trilene knot where you pass the line through the eye twice and then cinch down. 2 lines through the eye can disperse the pressure on the knot better than one.

Stay downstream of the fish as best you can while fighting it (safely). I use 8lb floro for steelhead and doubt the landlocks can be much bigger or more violent than that. You might be fighting both the fish and the current which is often a losing battle in a big river.

Good probem to have. Sounds like you've got a good spot there!

My .02
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  #11  
Old 10-10-2003, 05:36 PM
Bob Pauli Bob Pauli is offline
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Tippet strength

If your tippet to fly knot is breaking go to a 7-turn clinch, not improved.

At least two authors with plenty of claimed test data and Kispiox steelhead guide Todd Stockner consider the 7-turn clinch one of the two strongest tippet to fly knots that exist. [The othere is the Pitzen aka the Eugene Bend]. "Improving" the 7-turn clinch substantially weakens it.

If you want to prove relative knot strength to yourself, tie your favorite knot to a fly, hook the fly to a post and pull the fly line until the leader system breaks. In the majority of cases your favorite tippet to fly knot will break first.

Do the same with a 7-turn clinch. The tippet to fly knot will hold while other knots in the leader system fail, assuming the other knots are not bimini twists. In three actual fishing situations last week, when I hooked trees on the opposite bank [a common problem for spey rodders] either my spider hitch connection to the butt section or the mid portion of the tippet failed while the tippet to fly knot held strong.

It's worth a try. Good luck; I like your problem.

Bob
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  #12  
Old 10-10-2003, 07:55 PM
t_richerzhagen t_richerzhagen is offline
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Other Knots

Lefty Kreh in his "Practical Fishing Knots" lists the palomar at 95%-100% breaking strength and the jansik special at 98%-100%.

You can easily test knots against each other. Get a coupls of large hooks. Tie in each hook with a different know at the end of a foot or so of leader material. Grab the bend of each hook and pull the hooks apart to wee which know fails. repeat ten times to get consistent results. You know you are there when the leader and not the knot fails on occassion.
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  #13  
Old 10-17-2003, 12:21 PM
Midgeman Midgeman is offline
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4X & 7 Wrap

I second Bob's suggestion of the Rio Flouroflex Plus and the 7 wrap clinch. That's the combo I use and you can toe a boat with it (at least a pontoon boat). Hawg on!
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  #14  
Old 10-30-2003, 03:19 AM
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I would do a uni-not and perhaps try Stroft it is a german brand like maxima we use it in very small diameter for dry fly fishing...
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  #15  
Old 10-30-2003, 08:56 AM
dewey dewey is offline
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update from thread-starter...
made a third trip a couple weeks ago...
landed a 19" rainbow
and a 24" salmon...
The tippet held up - brand new Dai-Raichi flouro 3x.
Used the same old 9-turn improved clinch knot that's worked for the last 16 years... I'm pretty sure that wasn't the problem.
Unfortunately... My orvis Trident tl 5wt 9' tip flex rod broke while landing that salmon... 5th break in 6 years, second this season The worst part was that I had to cut the fishing short... I am getting used to my rod breaking

Anyway, thanks for the advice. I am now a believer in Flouro, and in the market for a durable 6 or 7 wt.

next question - who makes durable, inexpensive (less than 250) rods?
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