Skagit blown badly - Fly Fishing Forum
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  #1  
Old 08-20-2003, 09:47 AM
KerryS KerryS is offline
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Skagit blown badly

Rumor has it that a chunk of a glacier has sloughed off into the Suiattle or Chocolate Cr. and is fouling the waters of the Sauk and Skagit like you wouldn’t believe. The river is in as a bad of shape as I have ever seen it except during a flood. Can anyone verify the rumor or have any additional information about what has blown the Skagit out of shape?
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  #2  
Old 08-20-2003, 01:09 PM
Mean Mr Mustard
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As one would expect, the upper river is clear, but...

Found three local yeehaws fishing for kings with their corkies and such. Bragged about the big king one had hooked yesterday and fought for 45 minutes. Gee, you slopeheads, don't you know the king is ESA listed up here. ALL salmon fishing is closed above the confluence with the Cascade River, year round. They know but do not care. And no one fishes for cutts with a tuna rod!

Went through the typical phone message systems to report this violation yet was unable to contact a "live" person. It's hopeless.

mmm
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Old 08-20-2003, 02:00 PM
KerryS KerryS is offline
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It seems the further east one goes along the Skagit River the more interesting the people are. Not saying they are any better or worse then the flat landers living on the flood plain. Just a bit more eccentric shall we say. The poaching that takes place in the lower sections seems to be a tad more concealed but no less ubiquitous.
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  #4  
Old 08-20-2003, 03:03 PM
flytyer flytyer is offline
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MMM,

Don't you just love the way WDFW Enforcement gets right on reported violations on the Skagit?

The amount of poaching that I've seen on the river for kings and other salmon species is maddening. It seems that enforcement has decided that it is OK to have some poaching on the Skagit above Woolley. There are people catching and keeping kings and pinks at Lyman Ferry. the Mixer, and Pressetin Creek. And these are all found right on roads.
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  #5  
Old 08-20-2003, 03:28 PM
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MJC MJC is offline
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Poaching

Flytyer & MMM, As long as the enforcement officers responsible for your area can do nothing and draw their paychecks with no adverse public relations I don't think you will ever get any action on the poaching issue. Those officers can't be so naive or dumb to believe there is no problem. The tired excuse that they are stretched out to thin is pretty well worn out. A case could be made for dereliction of public duty. I think I said this once before but you guys should find a newspaper reporter that is friendly to environmental issues and clue him/her in with a little guided trip to show them the highlights of this poaching activity. Maybe a story in the Seattle paper will put a little heat on the Game and Fish Department.
Also, the salmon are protected under federal law so why not call the Fish and Wildlife Service. When I lived in Arizona those guys were on the scene at the slightest hint of any illegal activity. Take care, MJC
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Old 08-20-2003, 03:29 PM
Mean Mr Mustard
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WDFW enforcement is a joke, a bad joke at that. It's bad enough that the regs are written with such loop holes that one can pilot a jet sled through them but there is next to no enforcement. The system is set up so that if the game department can't respond then the state troopers will. HA!

In Marblemount there lives 3 such troopers and their families (close to half the population) yet no one will respond. I'm still waiting on a call I made last October in response to a violation (and I had witnesses, the offenders names, car tags, and even local address).

Thanks, again, for letting me blow off some steam on the subject.

mmm
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  #7  
Old 08-20-2003, 03:36 PM
KerryS KerryS is offline
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The problem goes beyond the WDFW. I think you will find the root problem for the lack of enforcement is the lack of money. WDFW being a state organization is subject to the whims of the politicians. The politicals have consistently cut the budget of the WDFW as they attempt to balance the budget and cover their own butts.

I believe you could crunch the numbers and find something like an increase of anglers around 30 to 40% more in the last 20 years and a decrease in the number of enforcement officers working for the WDFW. I would assume this is because the money is not there. WDFW will put what money they have where they can get the biggest bang for the buck. I don’t know for sure but I would think enforcement does not make the list.
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Old 08-20-2003, 04:07 PM
Mean Mr Mustard
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Well we know WDFW blows.

Tried the newspaper route last fall and the local rag was simply not interested (they, too, have problems with getting timely responses from this agency).

Maybe a slight silver lining is to be found - I spoke with the local tribal fisheries office and they stated they would pass the info along to their enforcement personnel. Boldt or not, the tribes coming to the rescue is somewhat ironic, eh? They are increasingly becoming our best ally (foregone opportunity notwithstanding). Further, the tribal commission is scheduled to receive a federal grant in September to add 11 more enforcement officers to WDFW enforcement. Why is it that I still hold my breath?

mmm
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  #9  
Old 08-20-2003, 04:18 PM
OC OC is offline
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It's not just the Skagit it's everywhere in the state. Yesterday I met a contractor on a jobsite who boasted to me that he recently snagged 24 kings on the Woshugal and smoked them up in his smoker. Until recently I never knew that there was so much inbreading in Washington State. Ya a few up north and a few out east and a lot over in Quilcene and some further west. What is wrong with the fathers of these guys can't they find anyone but their sisters to have kids with. With Kerry patroling the lower Skagit and MMM patroling the upper river you would think that these snag happy turkeys would be no more by now.

Some say that happiness is in a warm gun and not having a Knee cap is a rememberence of a life time. But you did not hear that from me and I realize we can not do that in a civilized society. Think about it though, wouldn't it be kind of fun in a sick kind of way.
signed
Peace on the river.
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  #10  
Old 08-20-2003, 04:35 PM
roballen roballen is offline
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Kerry
I disagree it's not a lack of money it's a lack of proper priorities. They refuse to look at issues of right and wrong behavior so therefore enforcment is lacking. They spend all their money running hatcheries that promote unethical behavior because it sells licenses. It is my firsm opinion bordering on fact that WDFW at the mangment level does not give a **** about fish endangered or not.. Some people High up in that organization need to lose their jobs because they have been such miserable failures.. Buy hey people keep buying licenses so whats the big deal right?

In my opinion we chould close some hatcheries and have a gamie or two on EVERY river full time looking after that river and it's wild life should be their priority number 1
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  #11  
Old 08-20-2003, 04:36 PM
KerryS KerryS is offline
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http://www.wa.gov/wdfw/do/newreal/aug1903a.htm

Seems WDFW wants to get the message out on some rivers........
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  #12  
Old 08-20-2003, 04:47 PM
KerryS KerryS is offline
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Roballen,

I will not argue the fact that WDFW suffers from mismanagement. I don't know of any state agency that doesn't fall into the catagory of mismanaged. But, I think the problem of mismanagement stems more from the fact the the organization head is a political appointee. The head of the WDFW is judged by who's butt he kisses not by performance. Case in point, Bern Shanks.

I still contend that it comes down to money. Whether you want to put the mismanage spin on it or put a numbers spin on it. It all boils down to how much money they have and how they are going to spend it.
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  #13  
Old 08-20-2003, 05:50 PM
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Howdy All, Roballen I think you have it nailed pretty good.

Kerry, If the game wardens were making any attempt at enforcement and were getting some of the law breakers than I could buy your theory. We have had this same discussion several times and Flytyer & MMM have always had the same complaint. Lack of response from the local enforcement sector. I see that as not doing the job at all. That is the tired argument of we, meaning enforcement, can't be everywhere that I spoke of above. The reality is "they" aren't anywhere. I have never once in all of these discussions ever heard anyone mention that they knew an enforcement officer. I don't know my local enforcement officer anymore either but I know where he lives and I also know where the Fish and Game Commissioner for this area is every day. If I was experiencing the problems you guys are I would take these guys on a little ride and show them. If they wouldn't go you can believe there would be an article in the Lewiston and Boise papers about their unwillingness to do their jobs. Take care, MJC
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  #14  
Old 08-20-2003, 05:57 PM
KerryS KerryS is offline
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I know a WDFW enforcement officer that has recently retired after what I think was 25 years working for WDFW. He was a dedicated officer. I know he took pride in his job and was very good at it. I have heard him voice frustration with the dept. and I also have listen to him talk about others who work for WDFW. These are people that care about thier jobs. I doubt anyone would get into this kind of work for the money. It isn't worth the abuse and bull they take if it were for the money. Lets get real here.
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  #15  
Old 08-20-2003, 06:13 PM
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MJC MJC is offline
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Kerry, I'm all for getting real. I will be the first to admit that enforcment officers aren't paid enough and they most deffinately have to put up with a lot of abuse from the public. I will also agree that the BIG problem is in management. But MMM & Flytyer are talking about open violation of the law in broad daylight in view of a good portion of the traveling public and you are telling me there is no way someone can not make an occaisional bust even after enforcment has received a first hand tip. I don't buy that.
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