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>> Archive: Salmon & Steelhead Flies Spey flies to mixed wings, new innovations

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  #1  
Old 08-01-2003, 08:56 PM
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pastortd pastortd is offline
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Classic Speys

Here are a couple classics. Somehow the silk on the Sol Duc turned pink in the scanning process. In fact, it is in actuality far more bright a shade of orange than the hackles! Interesting how that happened.

-- T.

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Old 08-01-2003, 09:38 PM
flytyer flytyer is offline
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The Sol Duc Spey is supposed to have a black throat hackle, not teal, gadwall, or pintail. My scanner also doesn't like to reproduce the bright hot orange floss, dubbing, and thread at the fly's head.
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Old 09-03-2003, 10:11 AM
Igor Igor is offline
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'T'

Nice dressings...especially the Sol Duc. I like the Teal in your collar as it adds a little detail and gives the fly a bit of transparency. Style and interpretation of style make tying a unique art...although subject to raised eyebrows from 'purists'.

Igor
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Old 09-03-2003, 12:24 PM
BobK BobK is offline
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Re: "Purists"

I guess my question for the "purist" is this: "Does your version catch fish any better?"

BobK:hehe:
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Old 09-03-2003, 01:33 PM
flytyer flytyer is offline
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Igor and Bob K,

The answer is no. The original Glasso dressing is just a little bit darker than his Sol Duc, which uses G.P crest for a short tail, TEal face hackle, and a G.P. crest as a wing topping. If you use teal instead of black for the face hackle, it in effect is nothing more than a Sol Duc fly without the G.P crest feather, and I'd rather tie and fish the Glasso flies as he designed them because of the progression from light to dark that they have.
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Old 09-03-2003, 02:28 PM
Igor Igor is offline
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I think PastorD has more than captured the 'spirit' or character of Mr. Glasso's Sol Duc Spey. The proportions are wonderful, it's obviously dressed with great care and respect to the fly's originator - there IS a nice transition from dark to light (as per the original Rx) and I'd wager it would result in as many hook-ups as the 'original'.

So, sans 'GP crest for the short tail, teal face hackle, and GP crest as a wing topping'*, he's tied a lovely Sol Duc Spey that'll catch fish.

With all due respect, Humbug on nitpicking and experts who have to have the last word on tying.

Igor

*What is your source for these components in Mr. Glasso's original dressing of the Sol Duc?
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Old 09-03-2003, 05:50 PM
flytyer flytyer is offline
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Igo,

Pastortd ties a very nice fly that takes a back seat to no one; however, there is a problem in my opinion with changing the basic coloration of a fly from the original unless you rename it. Take the Hendrickson dry fly for trout, if we substitute a cream or golden brown body when we dress it, it is no longer a Hendrickson. Likewise, if we change the body on a Jock Scott to gold tinsel, it is no longer a Jock Scott, it is rather the Gold Jock Scott. And if we eliminate the tail from a comet it is no longer a comet. The same standard should apply to steelhead flies.

My original source was a set of Glasso's flies that a friend of mine who knew and fished with Glasso has been given as a gift from Glasso himself. Trey Combs also lists the exact dressing (again based on the flies that Glasso tied and gave to him) in "Steelhead Fishing and Flies" and in "Steelhead Fly Fishing. I have also seen the exact same dressings in a set of Glasso flies that Alec Jackson has that were tied by Glasso (who was his fishing companion and friend) and in a set that the Whatcom County Museum has on loan from Ralf Wahl, which were also tied by Glasso. Helvie's "Steelhead Flytying Guide" also list the exact dressing I used, as does Shewy's book on spey and dee flies.

In short, the 3 sets of Glasso's flies that were tied by Glasso himself has the dressing I gave, and there have been other print references who used the same dressings as well.

What I meant Glasso's progression of light to dark is not what was in only one fly. It refers to the entire set of Glasso flies. In order from lightest to darkest they are: 1) Polar Shrimp Spey; 2) Sol Duc; 3) Sol Duc Spey; 4) Sol Duck Dark; 5) Courtesan; 6) Orange Heron; 7) Brown Heron; 8) Gold Heron; and 9) Silver (black) Heron. The series as a whole goes from very bright and light to rather dark, and as such, they cover the whole fishing spectrum of weather and water conditions.

Last edited by flytyer; 09-03-2003 at 05:54 PM.
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  #8  
Old 09-03-2003, 07:48 PM
Igor Igor is offline
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It would seem your flytying reference library and acquaintances with noted NW tyers who were peers of Mr. Glasso's are vast, Mr. Moderator. I dare say, some visitors to this forum might even be impressed.

The point still remains that a tyer dressed a fly (beautifully I might add) that maintained the integrity of the original design and remains worthy of calling it by it's original name. Just my humble opinion.

It's also my opinion that your comments about Pastor D's work were inconsiderate and arrogant. A little grace and tact would have been in order, I think.

Who sets and governs these 'standards' you mentioned?

That being the case, do you expect a tyer to rename a Green Butt Skunk to a 'Green Butt Calftail' because it was tied with the same? Are my Purple Perils no longer Purple Perils because they were fashioned on a tube instead of iron?

I amend my last post...Humbug AND PHOOEY on nit-pickers and self-proclaimed experts.

Igor
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Old 09-03-2003, 09:09 PM
Stu Farnham Stu Farnham is offline
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my reactions

Hmmm...

Flytier is right about the recipe for the Sol Duc Spey as tied by Syd Glasso.

On the other hand, when does a fly cease to be faithful to the original? I believe Glasso tied on Partridge low water hooks. Is it not a Sol Duc Spey if tied on a Bartleet or an Alec Jackson? What if you use synthetic floss instead of silk, or a seal substitute? Mylar tinsel? And you'd best split your silk floss to form a dubbing loop for the seal.

My reaction when I first saw Flytier's response was that it came across -- intentionally or not -- as dismissive of the very nice work Thomas does. Another approach would have been to say something like "Nice flies, PastorD. I notice you used teal for the throat on the Sol Duc Spey. Glasso's pattern called for black hackle, and I really liked the progression from light flies to dark that he established. I don't think the teal works as well in that regard as the original black."

Thomas is a wonderful fly tier. I admire his work and am always happy to see it. I hope that he's not discouraged from coming back to this forum.

Conversely, I've learned a lot from Flytier's postings, and value both the information and the feedback he's provided to me.

Stu
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  #10  
Old 09-04-2003, 03:35 PM
flytyer flytyer is offline
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Stu,

You're right, I should have posted my initial response with different wording. My intention was not to disparage Pastortd's work because his tying is impeccable. The intention was simply to have the Glasso dressing as originated and tied by Glasso himself displayed and the dressing listed (Glasso tied on Sealy low-water hooks, which are no longer available. The Partridge Barleets were not on the market when Glasso was alive, they came after Alec moved his hooks from being made by Partridge to Daiichi around 1989). That is why I mentioned in a posting other than my first one on the thread that Pastortd is an excellent tyer.

Igor,

A fly should be tied true to color in body, wing, ribbing, tail, butt, hackle, tag, etc. Wehter you use calf tail of polar bear or artic fox is of no consequence. Iis a Jock Scott any less a Jock Scott if tied with a hair wing composed of hair comprised of the colors of the original feather wing Jock Scott, of course not! Nor is tying a Purple Peril on a tube instead of a hook changing the fly, it is still a Purple Peril if it uses the same colors for body, wing, hackle, etc.(Stu this is what you were getting at, and you are correct.)

However, if you use black bear hair for a wing on a "Green-Butt Skunk" it is no longer a "Green-Butt Skunk". changing the wing to black turns the fly into a "Green-Butt, Black Bear" (a fly well-known to Atlantic Salmon fishers in North America). Likewise, changing the purple body of the "Purple Peril" to something close such as burgundy changes it into a different fly from the "Purple Peril".

In similar fashion, leaving the tail and topping off of a fly does not change the fly into a new fly or into an already existing fly of a different name. It is still the original fly tied as a variation. There is nothing wrong with doing so; however, the tyer should acknowledge that it is a variation of the fly and not call it the name of a different fly.

Nit-picker, no. A stickler for accurately naming a fly, yes. Otherwise, confusion reigns and we have no way of knowing what someone was using if he says he was using a Purple Emperor instead of a Neuron Cherry Bomb Spey.
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  #11  
Old 09-04-2003, 05:26 PM
Igor Igor is offline
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Flytryer,

Who ARE you?

I found your comments to me in your last post some of the condescending piffle I've ever read.

Do you think I needed a lesson on the taxonomy and/or morphology on the Green Butt Bear vd the Green Bunk Skunk?

How patronizing of you!

Humbug on sticklers and wind-bags, say I.

Igor
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  #12  
Old 09-04-2003, 05:39 PM
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sean sean is offline
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Cmon Igor. We do not need flame wars on this site. Not one of your posts has been on the constructive side since you joined the forum. If you have a personal beef with Flytyer lets keep it off the site.

Flytyer acknowledged his err in tone to pastord, (if you knew Flytyer you would know his point was not to knock pastords ties in the least) what else do you want?

If you look at the history of this forum we are all a civil bunch and respect EVERY tyers work.

It is only a web forum. Please try not to take it so personal. No malice was intended on anyone's part.

Lets get back to tying,

-sean (FFF admin)
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  #13  
Old 09-04-2003, 06:08 PM
wrke wrke is offline
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Sean
I agree completely. I've always valued the tone of friendship and helpfulness of this site. It's unique. People have always seemed to go out of their way when there are differences of opinion to avoid the type of nasty confrontation that's so prevalent on so many other sites. There are differences, sometimes great areas of disagreement, but the participants have always seemed to not want to compromize the site. Lets keep it that way.
Bill
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  #14  
Old 09-04-2003, 06:53 PM
DARKSTAR DARKSTAR is offline
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Igor, FT's comments were candid and accurate. period. So he cut to the chase..., I have found FT's candor refreshing, his knowledge vast, and in fact, have been trying to work out the details of this digital camera specifically so I can offer up my own work for similar critique...

I just hope he replies when I do!!
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  #15  
Old 09-06-2003, 02:31 PM
Stu Farnham Stu Farnham is offline
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Some interesting info

Curioser and curioser...

For a man with as much impact as Syd Glasso has had, the information available about him, and the extant photos of his flies, are relatively rare. In a google search for "Glasso Orange Heron" I came across the following article by Art Lingren in the newsletter of the BCFFF. It includes photographs of a number of his flies tied by Syd for Bob Taylor.

The Sol Duc Spey is tied with a teal throat.

Here's the link:

http://www.bcfff.bc.ca/002%20Fly%20L...all%202002.pdf

Stu
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