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Old 07-08-2003, 07:55 PM
Eddie Eddie is offline
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I think that the color code would have to be unique for each manufacturer. I seem to remember SA or Rio haveing a problem with infriging on Teeny's color code. Something like that.
Your senario reminds me of tarpon fishing. It is common to try to pick up too much line after a blown first shot. I thought about marking the begining of the ruuning line, but the maximum amount of line I can pick up is different at different times. Sometimes I can pick up 60'. Some times only 40'. I suppose a mark would have helped.
Also, I'm not sure if the issue is too many grains. I think that it has to do with the running line not having enough body, and too much friction on the water. I doubt I could pick up 90' of one weight line on a 9wt.
I look forward to seeing what you come up with.
One cast can change your day...maybe your life.
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Old 07-08-2003, 11:11 PM
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juro juro is offline
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Well since you pointed out that the issue might not be too much grains, I agree - the issue can also be too few grains or more succintly the tranfer of available energy from lesser to greater grains.

Your point about friction (more accurately surface tension) is IMHO equally non-precise in that it takes grains to move grains, i.e.: transition of energy occurs from greater grains and diameter to lesser grains and diameter over the length of the line but it does not do very well progressing from lesser to greater, as is the case when the line is not stripped to a point where the rod can actuate a transfer progressively. In spey casting for instance it's possible to lift and cast well over 100 feet of line provided the taper graduates over that length, surface tension easily overcome by a gentle lift before the cast. Yet the same rod would not do squat if the running line was in the water because it can not transfer energy to the greater grain section.

Of course the other key factor is sunk line, but it's not possible to roll it up to the surface unless the above is true (energy over taper). You'd have the same problem with a floater but it would feel like a 5 lb anchor instead of a 10 lb

This might suggest theoretically that a very long progressive taper would be ideal for flats fishing, but this is not the case since a significant number of "shots" are tight to your position (what I refer to as getting "jammed") and you need an all-around grain distribution to deal with those days when you just can't see the fish until they are on top of you.

In addition, the objective is to pursue a general purpose intermediate line with the benefits of the quickfire sinking heads, and a very long taper would not fit in the surf or rip current situations nearly as well as the more concentrated heads we know and love.

John -

You might have already suspected that this visual queue also makes it possible to apply the single backcast (no false, no haul) beach cast for most or all of the fly line using a double-handed overhead rod like the one I am field testing. Dennis Worley and I were discussing this technique of rolling out the head, shooting line into a single back cast, then firing the whole line with one cast yesterday. He's used it for roosterfish in the tropics, coho salmon in the sound and has some experience with it. It's pretty much become the standard cast for two-handed overhead casts for distance whether you talk to Nick Curcione, Jay Horton, Harry Koons, or any of the recent two-handed tinkerer's on the atlantic coast. So Dennis and I agreed this is really a distinct cast and we dubbed it the beach cast.

So it's utility applies not only to learning casters, quickfire sight fishing but also to beach casting. This is the technique I was using on the morning of the fourth when we all hit the beach, although that was left handed the backing knot still got out into the guides when I kept the backcast straight.

BTW - I have already received a favorable reply from one of the major line makers but until it reaches approval I don't want to say who in appreciation of the gesture.

Keep the opinions coming!
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Old 07-13-2003, 12:55 PM
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jimS jimS is offline
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#1. Yes
#2. Yes
#3. No, but have Rio Striper versitips for the kids and as my backup. The clunk thru the guides is one of the dislikes, but changing heads, and coiling the heads takes longer than changing spools. It is however a cheaper route for several different heads.
#4. The weight of the head depends on the rod weight. Nominal head weight for a 9wt rod is 240 grains. I prefer a heavier head to load the rod for quick, short shots. For a 9wt, a 280 grain head (standard for a 10wt) works well. I use a 300 grain Rio sinktip for the 9wt.
#5. 26' head, which is the sinktip length for Rio lines.

I assume you are referring to intermediate lines with a color change on the running line to be intermediate and not floating. Rio does make Quickshooter, Tarpon and Bonefish lines with an intermedaite tip with a color change (tan) with a floating running line.

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